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-   -   Tayana 37 cutter vs. Allied Princess 36 ketch (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-review-purchase-forum/31310-tayana-37-cutter-vs-allied-princess-36-ketch.html)

Alberg30 04-11-2007 11:10 PM

Tayana 37 cutter vs. Allied Princess 36 ketch
 
I am looking seriously at these two boats for liveaboard and cruising. Both in comparable shape (pre-survey, seem to be in pretty good shape, but need some work).

I'm handy and have pretty extensive experience doing major projects on boats, so I am not afraid of getting my hands dirty.

All else being equal, I give the Tayana the edge, but the asking price on the Princess is more than $20k less.

Thoughts from anyone who has experience with one or (better yet!) both of these boats would be appreciated!

Valiente 04-12-2007 11:05 AM

I think the Tayana 37 is more numerous and popular, but I can't recall anything bad said about the Allied Princess 36. In fact, it seems a tough little ketch: Allied Princess 36 Reviews and History Photo Gallery by Garry Prater at pbase.com

All things considered, the Princess is 7,000 lbs lighter than the Tayana and all that teak would discourage me. The Tayana has greater tankage and range, but is probably less lively in light airs. Not crazy about that canoe stern, either, but that's mostly taste and the desire for space aft in me. Both boats are quite traditional. Imagine Yachts, Ltd., Tayana 37 yacht

If all else is equal, the $20K you save on the Princess could pay for a complete repower and a new main and jib...something to consider.

EDIT: Found a Practical Sailor review: Princess 36 - Practical Sailor review photo - Garry Prater photos at pbase.com

sailingdog 04-12-2007 11:25 AM

I'd say go for the Princess and use the $20k to upgrade her, and then put whatever is left over on the cruising kitty.

PBzeer 04-12-2007 11:53 AM

I'd opt for the Allied as well. Like Valiente, I'm not fond of the loss of stowage with a canoe stern, or the amount of teak. And that extra 20K you save, WILL come in handy.

Good luck with either one though and hope one will be what you want.

chris_gee 04-12-2007 06:51 PM

There are several points. Assuming both are say 1977 and similarly equipped the NADA base values are Allied 35600, and Tayana 30700 without counting any extras.
I am not sure that I would attach to much weight to the accuracy of those figures, but from observation would say the Tayanas tend to ask more say 60k and sell for much less, say 40k whereas the equivalent Allied may be 50k and sell for 40K.
Maybe the Allieds price more realistically, but both end up much the same.
You are talking of a liveaboard with some cruising. Both are ocean going - the Tayana certainly is, the Allied with some reservations potentially.
To a degree it depends on the balance and where you intend to go and how much, whether you favour blue water capability or liveaboard comfort.
The Tayana seems a bit bigger inside and better fitted out. However with that bowsprit you are looking at higher berth costs.
Blue waterwise the Tayana is heavier with a higher ballast ratio, but the displ/length are quite close, and the Tayana has a higher SA/displ at 18 v 17. However the motion comfort is 38.4 for the Tayana v 30.4. I don't think the differences are major but the Tayana should be a bit faster stiffer and more comfortable.
Of more concern to me would be the cockpit volume on the Allied. A large cockpit is ok for swanning around but not filling with water.
I think with those concerns in mind on some of the later Allied Princess boats, the keel was deepened by 7 inches and a 1000 lb added to the ballast. As I recall the transom was strengthened and bigger cockpit drains installed, all changes better fitting her to ocean going. However even with those she still lags the Tayana. In fact it makes her displ/L higher than the Tayana and SA/displ less. I think only a limited number of boats were modified and I have never seen one advertised with those specs so I suspect most brokers don't know they exist and just use standard figures.
Either boat is ok for limited cruising but I would think the Tayana is better fitted out and a better more stable ocean boat, albeit with that bowsprit and bigger sails.
There shouldn't be a 20k difference is selling price if they are equal in gear and condition. They should be similar with maybe the Tayana a bit higher as they are often reasonably equipped.
If the Allied suits what you will be doing and you would be paying 20k less that goes a fair way towards upgrading.

Valiente 04-12-2007 08:09 PM

I didn't get the feeling the OP was discussing passagemaking in the ocean. I prefer the Tayana 37 for that use, but favour the Princess for liveaboard/coastal, because I suspect it's more apropos for gunkholing/Caribbean stuff, rather than going from Panama/Marquesas, say...

One of the links I cited addressed how many Princesses have had bigger cockpit scuppers fitted as the "pooping" problem had been an issue.

Alberg30 04-15-2007 09:53 PM

thanks so much for all the great info.

actually, i did want to keep open the option for big water. I have a bit of experience in other people's boats and hope to someday plan a larger trip.

what if i throw an Allied Seabreeze 35 into the mix - a yawl rig? Seems like a slightly more seaworthy boat than the Princess and can be found for about the same price advantage.

chris_gee 04-16-2007 12:49 AM

I think you need to be more precise on what you want the boat for - to yourself not us. Hope someday a longer trip is a bit vague. Like buy for what you realistically intend doing. If it is a liveaboard that's one thing. You might find the seabreeze a bit cramped for that relative to the others. There are reviews - look at the overhang 24' lwl and narrow beam.
If you might wander down the coast and maybe to the Bahamas any will do it.
The other point I suggest is that you really look at your total budget. The Seabreezes advertised are from 1965 at 20k to 1970 at 35K - in each case you get what you pay for, but even the more expensive one has a petrol motor and no real offshore gear. That costs the $$.
The Princess seems to come in at 72 for around 39k. I dont think the Tayana starts til 77.
I am not saying there will necessarily be a major difference between a 1966 and a 1977 boat per se but a boat that has been kept up to scratch will show it and both might need substantial refitting. In say 9 years it would have to be a pretty classic upgraded 50 year or even 39 year old boat to have much residual value.
Just remember that there are a lot of items eg sails rigging motor etc that may have to be replaced so it is final cost and value that counts.
A 35 k boat that costs 30k to refit may then sell for 45k. The 50 k boat that costs 15 may then sell for 55K.
It is pretty hard to find a boat that is cheap and good. If you are working on her for a few years, which is one choice, if you have the time, skill, and interest, is still time before you get the boat you want to use.

Alberg30 04-16-2007 01:17 AM

I am a veteran of both fairly substantial refits and a fair number of offshore passages, some in pretty mean water here in Asia (e.g., South China Sea, Indian Ocean). To me, there's no difference between a coastal cruiser and a bluewater cruiser. If the boat isn't capable of handling a storm at sea, she shouldn't be out of the bay. There are plenty of instances where there's not time to find an appropriate harbor to escape bad weather and getting sea room is the only safe option. That turns every coastal cruiser into a potential bluewater boat.

Second, I'd never buy a sailboat with a petrol engine. That's a given. Many, if not most, of the Seabreezes on the market have been repowered with Weterbekes and Yanmars. I wouldn't consider one otherwise.

I'm single (divorced) with a 10-year-old son who lives with me half the time. So, accomodations should of course be comfortable, but I do intend to sail as often as I can - mostly near shore, but once annually or so down the coast, maybe to the Bahamas. Eventually, depending on the job, I will probably want to try something a bit more ambitious. In short, I want that option.

chris_gee 04-16-2007 03:07 AM

Well my two cents worth would be the Princess as being capable of what you want. You have the skills and $ probably count. Enjoy your son and good fortune.


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