Bene vs Catalina?

[danielgoldberg]

Originally Posted by witzgall

Concerning cast iron keels. We have one on our boat, and I actually like it. I wonder if some of the bad issues following a grounding are not the keel's fault, but related to skimpy construction. We have ten one-inch ss bolts holding ours on, with a beefy stub and supporting framework. I don't think you would find that on a Beneteau.

I wonder how much shock the lead keel would actually absorb, compared to the water surrounding the boat? I would think it would be an insignificant portion. But if the stuff the keel is attached to is not up to the task, well then you have problems. This would be the case regardles of the keel's makeup, but since it is iron, let's blame the keel, instead of the substandard supporting matrix.

Chris

I have to disagree pretty strongly. Not sure if you've ever seen a lead keel after an impact. Believe me, the lead absorbs quite a bit. I don't care what kind of boat you have, if you have a hard grounding with the front end of an iron keel, you are going to have glass damage at the aft end of your keel boss. And believe it or not, the more stout your hull is constructed the more likelihood that you'll have much more damage. The lighter hull will flex much more and absorb at least some of the shock, whereas a more heavily laid up hull will suffer more damage. Likewise, cored hulls just get ruined in collisions because the hulls are so stiff due to the coring that they don't flex at all, so they just splinter. No two ways about it, lead keels are better in every respect for cruising boats, and not just because of the grounding situation; they are more dense so are heavier and make it easier to have a higher ballast to displacement ratio, and they don't corrode. Sometimes racing boats benefit from iron or steel keels because the cord can be smaller, and thus less underwater surface area, but short of that there's not too much to recommend an iron keel over lead (except cost and perhaps some environmental issues I guess).

[sailingdog]

A lead keel will actually absorb a lot of the force in a grounding, since it will deform, rather than transmit the shock through to the structure.

[xort]

I noticed that on all the Bene's I looked at, low 40'ers, none had a separate shower stall. For weekends maybe not an issue but to me a big deal for long term cruising.

[tommyt]

I have to say "Who gives a damn!" You buy the boat that you want, justify it because you wanted it, and hopefully you are happy. Other than you, who really matters until you want to sell it?

You love your Swan for whatever reason, I love my Catalina, and someone else loves there Bene. Big friggin deal!!!!!!!! We all love our boats, as it should be!!!!!!!!

If you need to justify your decisions,you should have bought a Tayana......or something else! And, this many years later, who cares!

[cupper3]

Reading through this thread I actually learned something... lead vs iron keels and the big one for me, is that I can't believe that any manufacturer would actually put press wood cabinetry into a sail boat!

That is horrible... something that deteriorates with the slightest bit of moisture into a marine environment!!!

Unbelievable. Other than Bennies, who else does this? Does Jeanneau also?

[Cruisingdad]

I suspect Jeneau too, but do not remember now. I do not think Hunter does. And all this may also depend on the models. I honestly am not fully educated in all the (MANY) models of Benes.

Brian

[Jeff_H]

With all due respect, I am somewhat skeptical about the post stating that Beneteaus have particle board in thier construction.

Not all that long ago I read a article that described Beneteau as the largest user of marine grade plywood in the world, and because of that, how Beneteau was able to influence veneers, plys, and laminating practices for the products they bought and that other boat builders were able to purchase as well.

The article talked about the Beneteau chosing inner plys which gave them specific weight and strength advantages. While it is possible that Beneteau uses particle board on their charter fleet spec'd boats, I would be skeptical of that. Given that Beneteau went though the process of developing lighter weight plywood that the article suggested was being used across the Beneteau line, I cannot imagine them then turning around and using particle board, which is generally significantly heavier than plywood.

That said, while I persoinally generally am not a fan of 'particle board' type produces, we are now seeing OSB concrete formwork and OSB subflooring which has better moisture resistance than the plywoods and are using better moisture glues and internal sealants than were typically used for this purpose in the past.

Jeff

[Cruisingdad]

Hey Jeff,

Not sure if that post was directed at me, but I dont think I have said taht Benes had part board. Maybe I did? Can't remember now. If I said it then I saw it, but I honestly cannot remember. I do remember the cabinetry being very cheaply done and veneer peeling off. What I meant above was that Jeaun and Benes seem to me to pretty much share teh same building standards so that if one saw X in a Bene, you could probably expect X in a Jeanneau.

DO be warned that since this post was done many years ago, that Catalina has done some things that I am not particulary fond of either. Not sure it would push me away from them to a Bene, but would make me give them another look. But teh Bene I saw back then was poorly done, IMHO. THis is my opinion only. I will also say that in general, Bene makes a fine boat. Sometimes I wonder if teh Bene versus Catalina argument should be phrased more like, "Do you like Chevy's or Fords?"

Brian

[Jeff_H]

Brian,

I was replying to Post #57 and #65 and not to you post.

Jeff

[blt2ski]

I will not say this part of the particle board is correct, BUT, the outer layer of teak is not a full layer cut from the log as in the past, The inner plys are cut from a log and glued accordingly. The outer layer is a for lack of better term a particle base. BUT, it is all teak that has been put together to get the current horizontal look and feel that GB uses in there lines. To me it has a bit of a plasticized wood look. IIRC it is a combo teak and epoxy to make sure it will last vs partical style boards most of us are used to for shelving, behind some interior products etc.

Marty