New problems on vendor's boat

HoffaLives · #1 (**permalink**) 05-10-2007

The arrangement I made with the vendor was that I would do the labour and they would supply the parts to repair problems found on the CS 36T that we are buying. I don't know how often this kind of arrangement happens, but I figured this would be the best way to get very familiar with the systems on the boat and what previous POs have done with it. In doing so, I have found other issues that I want dealt with such as no regulator for the solar panel array, and the link 2000 battery monitor has some problems. I think the monitor should be replaced with a new one (I'll install it) and there should be a regulator for the solar panels (ditto). As to the latter, I guess the PO just switched off the panels when the batteries showed full charge, but that seems to me pretty lame and not the way a solar array is supposed to be connected.

I went to the broker and mentioned this, and he responded that the vendors have set a fixed amount for repairs and I had to work within this. To me this sounds like HS. I imagine I will have close to 100 hours of my labour into the repairs by the time it's all done, none of which the vendors are paying for. To be fair, I am getting a good price on the boat, which is why I was willing to be flexible on the repairs and also willing to do the work myself. But it seems to me that if new stuff comes up they should be willing to pay for it. These systems were part of the advertised package; the add didn't state solar array needs work or monitor should be replaced.

My question is at this point do I have a leg to stand on? We haven't yet paid for the boat, just the deposit. These things were mentioned on the survey, and the vendor responded with the link system just needs to be reset and the solar panels just need a few bad connectors replaced. I'm now finding bigger issues.

Nathaniel

Freesail99 · #2 (**permalink**) 05-10-2007

It doesn't sound like a lot of money to make the upgrades or changes. The systems are working now. Maybe not to your liking, but working none the less. You can ask, but I think you already made your bed.

sailingdog · #3 (**permalink**) 05-10-2007

Unless you have it in writing, anything the vendor said is pretty meaningless... unless he is a rare one with a sense of honor and who stands behind his word. That is very, very rare nowadays.

hellosailor · #4 (**permalink**) 05-10-2007

Nathaniel, I think you have an unrealistic expectation of what "problems" means.

Problems does not mean shortcomings against your vision of perfection. It means "the engine doesn't run" or "the engine smokes black, the fuel injectors need repair".

There is nothing wrong with solar panels simply hooked up without a regulator--as long as the capacities are matched. Or, with a manual cut-off switch. A regulator that was operating improperly would be a "problem". A regulator that wasn't necessary would *not* be one.

What about the SSB? What about an electric winch? Oh, wait, why isn't there a CNG convection stove? You may think those things are proper or necessary on a boat--buy the absence of them is not a "problem" that a seller pays for the addition of.

Boat purchases are usually made subject to survey and sea trials, with an escrow arrangement to correct problems--meaning, material defects like delamination and unseen equipment failures.

That's the way it is done, the seller is not stiffing you on anything.

Sailormann · #5 (**permalink**) 05-10-2007

Quote:

My question is at this point do I have a leg to stand on? We haven't yet paid for the boat, just the deposit. These things were mentioned on the survey, and the vendor responded with the link system just needs to be reset and the solar panels just need a few bad connectors replaced. I'm now finding bigger issues.

It's frustrating right now - went through exactly the same thing. But in the end - if the stuff is there - and if it kind of works - you are getting what you've paid for. It's disappointing because when you get a new boat you want everything to be as perfect as possible. A couple of months from now you'll feel a lot better about the whole process.

camaraderie · #6 (**permalink**) 05-10-2007

Nat...I think you are screwed since you chose a most unorthodox buying arrangement and have no clear and definitive agreement about exactly what is covered. Apparently the owner was willing to sign on for $xx dollars of "repairs" and let you do the work. I don't think ANY owner would sign on for unlimited repairs and frankly if you had just offered him $xx less than the agreed upon price based on the defects found and he had accepted you'd be in exactly the same position you are today except YOU would own the boat and be investing the labor n YOUR boat instead of his!
The good news is that if you still like the boat, at least going through with the sale will make your labor not in vain as you would have done it after a normal sale process anyway.
I do not think the seller is in any way responsible here or is acting unethically based on what you've told us.
Good luck!

HoffaLives · #7 (**permalink**) 05-11-2007

Boy, you guys are really, really hard. I was hoping for a bit of support here

Oh, well, as was pointed out, it's not like it's a lot of money and the boat is an amazing find IMO. But I will have to do something about that solar array, which I just fixed. I just don't feel comfortable with 20 volts sitting on four brand new batteries.

camaraderie · #8 (**permalink**) 05-11-2007

Hoffa...you're right about the panels. I burned up some 4D's with my first solar install. If you intend to rely on the panels, I do suggest you get an MPPT charge controller like the BlueSky one discussed on the solar/wind thread as it will make more amps for you when the panels are at full output through a better conversion process.
http://www.blueskyenergyinc.com/pdf/SB2000ManualE.pdf

sailingdog · #9 (**permalink**) 05-11-2007

HoffaLives-

Unfortunately, you set yourself up in an unusual situation... and really brought it upon yourself in many ways. If you had stipulated adding voltage regulation to the solar array as part of the offer post-survey (you did do a survey, right??) then you might have a leg to stand on... but from what I can tell, you didn't... but you want them to spend the money on buying one for you now...

Cam hit it on the head with his post... and because of the way you structured the agreement... you're effectively pouring a lot of sweat equity in to a boat you do not own yet. You said that they would supply the parts... putting in a charge controller where there wasn't one previously isn't supplying needed parts, it is an upgrade...

I'd also second getting an MPPT charge controller, like the BlueSky.

hellosailor · #10 (**permalink**) 05-11-2007

3rd for the MPPT. And, one of the small 12-volt books like the "12v bible" or "12v doctor" to explain some power issues. 20V is more than the batteries should be exposed to in a perfect world, but the amperage is probably more of an issue. And either way, the MPPT controller will give you more useful power than any other type.

Its not that we're a hard crew--just that there's little question about "the way things are done" in a boat sale, unless you've contracted specifically otherwise.