Tabernacle-able roomy cruiser reccomendations?

[piggybeach]

Originally Posted by agamemnon

Piggybeach, this might be of interest to you. Yesterday, as a by-product of a trade, I acquired a 28' tabernacled-mast sailboat located in the Monterey Bay. ..

agememnon,
that's a bit smaller than i was hoping for, but if the price is right i'd like to know more.
any pictures?
thanks,
ben

[piggybeach]

Originally Posted by sailingdog

Yup... I'm sure that CP or one of the others can provide a [sample boat purchase agreement] ... it's been posted previously on other threads.

not sure who CP is. and i did some digging here for faq on buying a boat. so far, no fill in form. but here are some useful "buying" links:

sailnet thread:
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/buying...-purchase.html
from the above link, this one proved fruitful:
Buying A Boat
and a government publication:
Looking for a Used Boat

[piggybeach]

Originally Posted by cardiacpaul

remove the ballast resistor wire, throw it oveboard while cussing a blue streak... Replace the coil with an internally ballasted one... personal opinion, based on the questions you've asked, wait for the surveyor.

great info. i'll take that advice and cool my jets. even though the boat is cute, it's not cute enough to warrant a new engine.
Ben

[piggybeach]

met with joseph rodgers today for a "brainwashing"...
as a newb i needed an orientation to the whole boating world and think that i got a good start.
in short he recommends finding a boat already tabernacled in my harbor by "walking the docks" and chatting people up. i'm still interested in the CAL boats, but there are also a lot of Catalinas in my harbor, as well as a really clean Lancer 29, and a bunch of other neglected vessels...
he recommends staying away from anything larger than 30' due to the heft of the mast for tabernacling, and also advised that some smaller Cals and Catalinas (25-27) has surprisingly good cabin feel and also sail nicely. it's open season here again and i'm taking recommendations...

[KeelHaulin]

Hmm... I think it might be difficult to find someone in SC that is willing to part with their boat; unless they have another one waiting to go into their slip. With the wait list for a south harbor slip (ocean-side) appx 20 years; even the north harbor slips (tabernacle required to get under a fixed bridge) are coveted for those who wish to have a boat berthed in Santa Cruz. How long did it take to get that NH slip?? Rigging a tabernacle system for the mast is commonplace in SC because of the long wait for south harbor berthing; I have seen boats as large as ~38 feet rigged to drop the mast down forward while underway. This is done with an electric winch with a spool of wire similar to one used on a 4x4 (I think). The aft stays are released and the winch lowers and raises the mast by allowing it to pivot forward; of course the deck plate and spar must be hinged so that the mast will pivot down correctly. It's quite a sight to see a 40' mast pointing forward at 45 deg while the boat goes under the fixed bridge.

Joseph Rodgers is "the guy" in terms of surveyors in your area. I've heard he is very thorough and that you will get a very complete/competent survey. I met him while taking sailing school classes at Pacific Sailing; he was our instructor for two days aboard a Beneteau 32. He's a good guy although his first suggestion would probably be to charter rather than own (which is not bad advice by any means). Since you mention that you are a newb to sailing you should take the 8-day class with Pacific Sailing to get a feel for sailing out of Santa Cruz and familiarize yourself with sailing Monterey Bay. You could even charter for a while to be sure that you are ready when you get your boat. Winds in SC are very protected nearshore between Capitola and the lighthouse; NW winds can be howling outside of the 1 mile bouy. We have been in short period 8-10 ft seas with gusts to 35 kts on clear/sunny days (non-storm conditions). If the winds are from the South the harbor can have breakers coming in the enterance; be careful of this and prepared to wait it out if you get caught out.

Get a boat that is solidly built. An older Catalina might be a good choice; not sure about earlier build quality except for the S&S designed Cat 38. The new "volumized" Cat/Bene/Hunters are not what I would call PNW coastal cruisers. Inside the 1 mile bouy at SC they are fine for small daysails; but beyond that it's just too rough out there and they really get tossed about in the wind and swell. At about 15-20 kts they start to get unstable/excessive heel even when reefed down. The Sun Yachts 27 that "agamemnon" owns might also be one to look at; ask Joseph if he knows of these boats and their build quality.

[piggybeach]

Originally Posted by KeelHaulin

...Get a boat that is solidly built. An older Catalina might be a good choice; not sure about earlier build quality except for the S&S designed Cat 38. The new "volumized" Cat/Bene/Hunters are not what I would call PNW coastal cruisers...

you covered a lot of ground, though not sure what PNW means?

anyway, i appreciate the tips. and sure enough joseph did recommend that i charter some boats first. i am signed up for sailing lessons starting monday, though they are through the UCSC summer boating program. after those sessions i may be ready for some further instruction with the other school. my wait time was about five years for the upper harbor. perhaps surprisingly though, there are a lot of neglected boats in the upper harbor around the area where heavy shoaling occurred. i don't know if the people there got turned off to sailing or just the upper harbor over the past few heavy winters... joseph walked the docks with me and pointed much of this out. he even suggested going smaller with a 27 foot catalina or some such for ease of single handing and getting under the bridge. that could work for me. although, i would like to spend a couple of nights per week on the boat and think 30' could be a better fit for me. either way, it's clear that i need a solidly built vessel if i'm going to make it outside of the mile bouy, let alone san francisco, monterey or points beyond.
best,
ben

[sailingdog]

PNW—Pacific North West... Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, etc.

[KeelHaulin]

Originally Posted by piggybeach

i am signed up for sailing lessons starting monday, though they are through the UCSC summer boating program. after those sessions i may be ready for some further instruction with the other school. my wait time was about five years for the upper harbor. perhaps surprisingly though, there are a lot of neglected boats in the upper harbor around the area where heavy shoaling occurred. i don't know if the people there got turned off to sailing or just the upper harbor over the past few heavy winters...

Well I just had my post dumped when I tried to spellcheck Here we go again...

I'm sure there are lots of boats in SC North Harbor that are neglected/unused. People tend to hold onto their boat and slip as long as possible because of the wait to get in; even if they are throwing money away with marina fees and deferred maintenance. There are many derilict boats in my marina too; even though there is no shortage of slips. I understand the philosophy of buy for next to nothing and fix/refit; but are you sure you want to go this route? A project boat is a huge amount of work and the time/money you spend might better be put towards a boat that is in better condition and closer to being ready to sail. Part of the equation at SC is that the owners who regularly sail keep their boats seaworthy (and for the most part don't want to sell); while the boats that are neglected are placeholders for people who either have lost interest but still want to be able to own a boat/slip, placeholder boats for people who are looking for a newer boat and/or in seriously bad condition. These are assumptions on my part; but that's the picture I see. It would be ideal if you find someone in SC with a well kept boat that fits your needs and is looking to sell/upgrade. Second choice would be to find a boat that has had recent refit work done and is 'rough around the edges'; this might represent the best overall value; if you find all of the problems and correctly adjust the value before you buy. Be sure and ask Joseph to check his files for any previous surveys on boats you are interested in; he might be able to help guide you toward/away from particular boats on your short list.

I would check out other boats, get a feel for what you like and what you dislike. Lots of preliminary research in this regard can be done on yachtworld.com and walking the docks. Until you sail some different boats you will not get an idea of what you do and don't like about different models; both in sailing properties and layout. If you can get some sailing time before you buy it will really help in your understanding of how sailboats work and what you will want to look for.

Consider buying a small sailboat that is inexpensive and does not need to tabernacle first. You could sail it for a year and get some time to research the ideal cruiser. That would justify the slip rent and get you ready for a bigger boat. Does the boat you put in the slip need to be a sailboat? You could even buy a zodiac before you buy the sailboat if you just need something to occupy the space.

I don't think I would limit myself to only the fixer boats in SC marina. It might be more trouble than it's worth and just turn you off to boat ownership in general. Use the boats in the marina as a guide to what's available and what can be easily retrofitted to tabernacle; keep in mind that every fix costs 2-3x more than what you estimate (before you jump in on a boat that is "well below market").

[piggybeach]

Originally Posted by KeelHaulin

...Part of the equation at SC is that the owners who regularly sail keep their boats seaworthy (and for the most part don't want to sell); while the boats that are neglected are placeholders for people who either have lost interest but still want to be able to own a boat/slip, placeholder boats for people who are looking for a newer boat and/or in seriously bad condition....
...find a boat that has had recent refit work done and is 'rough around the edges'; this might represent the best overall value...
...Until you sail some different boats you will not get an idea of what you do and don't like about different models...
...Consider buying a small sailboat that is inexpensive and does not need to tabernacle first.
...You could sail it for a year and get some time to research the ideal cruiser. That would justify the slip rent and get you ready for a bigger boat..

WOW. thanks for a lot of sage info. i'm tending to lean your direction as to getting a smaller inexpensive boat for the first year or so...one that is ready to go, if musty. on the other hand, I could hang in there for a while. the menu of sailing classes before me will occupy the next eight weeks. by the end of that i may be ready to jump into a roomier boat (which is my inclination) but with a substantial measure of confidence--which is now lacking for obvious reasons. tomorrow we practice capsizing!

[piggybeach]

i'm taking my basic sailing lessons right now and spending more time in the harbor. the "need" to buy a boat is still there, but with the tempered calm which comes from reviewing a lot of "for sale" listings and realizing that it's much MUCH harder to get rid of a boat that you don't want then to pick up a boat that you DO want. kind of like marriage? dating???

in fact, the surveyor Joseph i met with said that it's important to try out a few boats and fall in love with their "curves" (if you get the picture!)

so, i'm out looking at boats in the SC harbor, watching them go under the bridge (18' clearance at max tide) and tabernacling--lowering and raising--their masts. what a GIG! anyway, thanks to all who posted replys to my request for help.

the search is not OVER...