Purchasing documents

[Rodz47]

I am a Canadian intending to buy a used boat in the US. Can someone tell me what documents, beside purchasing agreement, I should request from the broker/owner team. The boat is documented with CG and is located in NC. Is the broker or owner obligated (if I ask for) to present the boat title at the closing?

[USCGRET1990]

If it has one, yes. A title has only been mandatory since Jan 1, 07 on old boats.

[brak]

Originally Posted by USCGRET1990

If it has one, yes. A title has only been mandatory since Jan 1, 07 on old boats.

Even for "documented" boats? I thought those still have separate documents? How can there be both a title and documentation?

[hellosailor]

I think that's a typo on "07". HINs have been mandatory since 1972, and boats are "titled property" in most states since sometime in the 70's as well.

Since the vessel is USCG documented, it has a valid title and you should ask for all the documents (title, maybe builder's statement, current documentation) that are available for it. The title will usually be transferred into your name, literally "signed over to you" at the time that you pay for the boat. The USCG documentation will have to be cancelled or terminated, since you are not a US citizen.

If you are taking the boat back to Canada, find out from your provincial authorities what you will need. Probably a bill of sale marked "PAID", possibly witnessed or notarized. If you are leaving it in the States, you can only apply for state registration for it--and you'll need an address in the state that you register it and keep it in. Aliens can register a boat with any state in the US, you just can't document it because documentation is reserved for citizens, and carries obligations along with national flagging.

[sailingfool]

Originally Posted by USCGRET1990

If it has one, yes. A title has only been mandatory since Jan 1, 07 on old boats.

Who has made titles mandatory, where? I thought most states don't require titles for documentated boats, certainly MA does not. It appears the NC does not either (https://www.ncwildlife.org/pg01_License/pg1c1.htm#q6).

Where Rodz47 is not an American citizen I believe the documentation cannot be transferred to him, so he may in fact need to apply for a title...my advice would be to discuss this situation with a documentation specialist such as http://www.vesseldoc.com/ to ensure there's no surprises.

[Sailormann]

In order to import the boat into Canada you need to provide a certificate of origin that states the country of manufacture of the boat which must be provided BY THE VENDOR, an invoice and bill of sale (the latter two could be one document - i.e.: an invoice marked "Paid in Full"). Also, although it is not mandatory, it would be a good idea to complete one of these forms, as you will be required to provide the information it asks for:

http://cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pbg/cf/ci1/ci1-fill-07b.pdf

If the vendor can provide you with a copy of the title document, and a COMPLETED application to delist the boat from the US registry or transfer title (I am not sure of the exact process there), and if that title is in the same name as that of the vendor, then it would be good to have that. If not, then you should request a witnessed affidavit stating that the vendor has clear title to the vessel, and that title is in the process of being delisted and that title has passed to you.

Depending on the origin of the boat, it may or may not be NAFTA eligible. If it was made in the US, then it is. If it was made elsewhere it probably is not, but MAY be. This is the information that you need to know as far as rules of origin go - note that your boat would be classified as 'casual goods' rather than commercial goods (assuming you are not bringing it into Canda to resell it:

http://cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pub/cm/d11-4-2/d11-4-2-e.pdf

It would be a good idea to take as much documentation with you regarding the history of the purchase (advertisements, emails, etc.) as you can.

If possible, accompany the boat across the border. If you are trucking it, then either ride with it, or follow it in your own car. If you are sailing it, then you can report in to Customs when you arrive, and they will refer you to the appropriate office to make your formal declaration.

If the boat is NAFTA eligible and duty free, then you will only be required to pay GST on the purchase price. If it is dutiable, then you will be required to pay 9.5% duty on the purchase price, and the GST will be calculated on the sale price and the duty.

If you are taking cash or a certified cheque, or ANYTHING that could be considered negotiable into the US to pay for the boat, and if that is more than $10,000.00, you need to declare this to Canadian AND US customs when you are exiting Canada and entering the US. If not, it may be confiscated.

If you cannot accompany the boat, it may be worth using a customs broker to handle things for you.

[hellosailor]

Sailingfool-
The NC regs you quote only say that users will be required to title their vessels. That's not the same as saying that all motor vessels are/not titled.
For instance, if I had a 1968 Shelby Cobra, I might not have a title to it. I might just have a "pink slip" (so called because they were pink in California>) showing I was the registered owner. Titles for motor vehicles were not universal in 1968. Around 1972, most states (perhaps all) started to follow a uniform standard, and motor vehicles have been sold WITH A TITLE CERTIFICATE and classed as "titled property" in most or all of the US since then. Titles can get lost, and if you buy a vehicle that originally was titled property, and the previous owner doesn't obtain a replacement and transfer it to you--you can wind up being unable to register the vehicle, when it hits a law like the NC reg you cited, which says that NOW, everyone has to have a TITLE.
You see the difference?

With 50 states, each having their own choice of title laws for motor vehicles and each treating cars and boats a bit differently, who knows what each state wants? But AFAIK they all have treated motor vehicles as "titled property" in order to fight interstate thefts for many years now. No title certificate? Then you don't own it, even if you paid for it and registered it. That's the standard, even if some states haven't caught up to it all the way.

[USCGRET1990]

I didn't read the first post correctly, in that the boat is documented. But thats been covered here. As far as NC is concerned, if it is registered in that state but doesn't have a title, when you transfer it to your name (or just renewing your reg.) you will have to pay extra and apply for a title. (as of 1/07) It's been that way when registering a new boat for quite sometime.
Older boats were excempt. But not anymore. The state appears to want them all titled now.

[USCGRET1990]

PS: It seems the NC DNR has yet to update there website.
(That doesn't surprise me...)

I know about that new title law, as I just went thru it a few months ago and that is what the licensing agent told me.
Gee maybe he's scamming folks!!

[USCGRET1990]

Oh, I found it:
What Vessels Must be Titled?

Anyone who purchases or transfers a motorized vessel or sailboat 14 feet or longer or who owns a personal watercraft (jet ski), will be required to title the vessel effective Jan.1, 2007. In most cases, lenders require a title as a condition for granting a loan on a vessel.