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  #1  
Old 06-27-2007
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landfall is on a distinguished road
Freedom 35/33/32

How would you rate the Freedom 35/33/32 models?
I am looking to cruise/liveaboard for2-4 mths at a time and sail from Florida to Bahamas and the Caribbean. Are they suitable for the passage? Anyone owned or sailed these? Are they tender ? I am looking for a stable and gentle motion for my wife who is new to sailing. Me I have been there and back a few times!!!!
So as well as motion comfort, fuel/water capacity as well as not too much draft. Something between 30' to 37' that is liveable for 2 adults . Any comments on the nonsuch 30 0r 36 would be welcome also.

Thanks, Landfall ( x -C&C er)
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Old 06-27-2007
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camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
The Freedoms are of medium build quality whereas the Non-such is of excellent build quality IMHO. Both are fine for your plans but these are both kind of "cult" boats with the crowd that likes unstayed rigs, cat rigs and they are not particularly suited to windward work...though easy to handle.
Why do you find these boats attractive when the vast majority of boats choose a more conventional approach? Have you sailed one?
Not saying not to buy one...just seems like an unusual choice for someone who doesn't really know the boats.
Suggest looking at CapeDory36 or Tayana37 for nice boats that have an easy motion at sea. Alternatively you may wish to consider a catamaran if your wife doesn't like the heeling.
Search the site for "bluewater boats" and you'll come up with lots of other suggestions.
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Old 06-27-2007
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sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
The one caveat I'd have is that the motion of a Catamaran is going to be quicker than that of a monohull... it will also not generally rock as much at anchor, since the beam of a multihulll and the lack of a keel make it far less likely to rock.

If you have questions about Catamarans or multihulls, let me know.
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Old 06-27-2007
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Thanks for the response Cam!
I am like many I guess looking for that right fit! I have sailed since 16 and I am 54. First spent several years sailing on a friends father's Grampian 30' . But he was a race nut!!! I learned a lot about nav, setting & adjusting sails, but I could never figure out wht a guy who wons a slug of a cruiser would only race her???
At 28 I bought my first sloop. Living on Ontario, Canada C&C was close by and affordable so I bought a new 30'. I loved it and sailed her on lake Ontario for 6 years. Then I decided to move up...to a C&C 34...it was a lemon!!! It was a bad ride from the get go! I bailed out of her in my 2nd year and made a profit as well..go figure..then I took the plunge on a C&C 42 Maple Leaf which sailed for several years on the great lakes and in the caribbean for 2 1/2 years. I have been land locked for nearly 9 years and am just doing research onn my next purchase...I won't say it's my last boat...lol you have heard that one before!
But I have a fairly good idea of what suits my needs. No 40+ yacht for me! I've done that single-handed but I was much younger and a lot more foolish as well!
My choice of vessel is...something I can manage on my own ( wife has no sailing skills) Therefore..to be honest I a simple rig..that's why I am considering a Nonsuch. I know about the builder very well...as you said they were a high quality builder! The space below on the 30' is equal to most 34-35 cruising boats and a friend of mine has done extensive sailing in the Carib...not just the Bahamas. And she is quick as well! But in my eyes she is kinda ugly. On looks alone I prefer a Tartan/Sabre style.... I guess that's the C&C in me showing!
Yes Cam i have considered a cat...actually delivered a custom made 59' from st. Martin to Saint Lucia for a friend who owns a resort there. I was surprised how I enjoyed the ride with 25+ knot winds for most of the journey! But too big and too many dollars for my budget.. speaking of which is about $50,000-$60,000.
Anyway, I would appreciate all comments from you and others on this site. I welcome the advice!

Cheers, Landfall

PS: If anyone needs some hands-on knowledge of C&C boats from 30'-42' I would be glad to provide you with lots of info. I spent many an hour in their plant and I knew both of the C&C owners. So I can provide you with the good ,the not so good and the ugly! They made some terrific boats and some real losers!
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Thanks sailing dog!
Since I think cats are out of my budget I think I will concentrate on monos for now.
Besides I did say we plan on spending 2-4 mths at a time on board and not just sitting at some dock . Cats usually can't preform well if well loaded down with water, provisions,fuel, etc.
Thanks for your comments tho.
Hola, Landfall

PS: Why isn't JeffH piping in???
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Old 06-28-2007
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Landfall...Good...you have lots more experience than I presumed from your first post. Since ease of handling is a primary concern, you might also look at conventional rigs with jib on a boom and furler. Island Packet comes to mind but I know JeffH doesn't like them!! (G) If he doesn't show up here to answer your question...you might try him on Cruisers & Sailing Forums where he also hangs out. Here's a quote on the Nonsuch in ocean sailing with a link to the full review:
I am often asked about the suitability of the Nonsuch for ocean crossings and although I feel confident in the ability of this design to withstand the stress of such a voyage, I must qualify my endorsement. There have been two books written by people who have attempted ocean crossings in a Nonsuch 30. In the case of Brian Shelley, the 1985 crossing to Falmouth was successful, but the boat was lost on the return trip. Breakdowns in the wishbone boom, the sail ripping from the mast track, and the loss of halyards, were some of the problems encountered. Ocean sailing causes a great deal of chafe and stress, due to the constant rolling and pitching. Most sailors know where to look for fraying lines and worn fittings on standard rig, but wishbone-rigged boats have a different set of wear and chafe points that must be considered. The pennants, shackles, and fittings that hold the wishbone boom to the mast, must be inspected frequently for wear. The choker line for the wishbone needs frequent replacement, and the sail slides and luff taping may require reinforcing. One must also be aware that the original blocks, tackle, and sheet fittings may need upgrading for long distance/long term sailing. Both abandoned boats, David Philpott's Serenity (Dangerous Waters, by David Philpott, 1985. McClelland and Stewart, Toronto), and Saci IV, Brain Shelley's boat (mentioned above), drifted for four to five months with no one aboard. They were eventually found, taken to port, refitted, and are sailing again. The hull integrity never failed.
The Nonsuch represents good value for money. This design offers high re-sale value, ease of sailing and, with marina charges always based on a price per foot of length, owners get maximum cockpit and interior volume for their 30 feet.
Full review: Canadian Yachting
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cardiacpaul is a jewel in the rough cardiacpaul is a jewel in the rough cardiacpaul is a jewel in the rough
I'm a really big fan of the Freedom 33.
(ok, so I have one, gimme a break)
It is extermely easy to sail, it points well, and I have no idea what these people are talking about regarding "windward work".

The ease of a gybe or tack in my opinion far outweighs any performance issues. You want to turn? build a little speed, then spin the wheel matey, the sails dump over, grind them in to trim, and away you go. no fuss, no muss.

The Cuban, 5'5, 12sumpin lbs, can singlehand her with great ease.

They are quite "fast" (being a relative term) for a 33 ft cruiser.

The gelcoat on ours is in topnotch shape (try saying that for most 25 yr old boats that spent their life in the gulf of mexico)

Designed by Gary Hoyt, built by TPI (builder of pearsons, j/boats, and alerions) TPI was/is a leader in high tech glass work.

"downsides"
The originial wrap around sails are very heavy. big winches are the order of the day.

Lots of lines.

Carbon fiber unstayed masts. (this isn't really a downside, I don't know of ANY problems with them, but it does look a little goofy)

some of the 33 were centerboard models. I'd prefer the conventional keel.

cabin is very well made, most were very light in color, rather than dark wood, gives the impression of a lot more space.

its very "roomy" for a 33 ft boat.
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Last edited by cardiacpaul; 06-28-2007 at 10:02 AM.
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Old 06-28-2007
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I used to have a complete love sick crush on the Freedom 44. It has a flush deck and was quick by all standards having won the newport/bermuda 1-2 and a true world cruiser. Easy to handle, etc... etc...
Then I saw a freedom 39 pilothouse in my marina back in the late 80's with one of her two masts snapped about 8' off the deck.
I completely lost my love for the Carbon fiber unstayed masts.
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Old 06-28-2007
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Landfall,
Sorry for going off topic, but I was wondering why you didn't like the C&C 34? I was a happy owner of a C&C 25 and may want another C&C in the future.
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Old 06-29-2007
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Landfall - I sailed on a Freedom 35 for a week last summer through the Apostle Islands on Lake Superior. Three guys were quite comfortable, and the boat was very livable. The quality seemed, for a production builder, above average quality.

As far as sailing, we found she sailed really well on a beam or broad reach. Stable and fast. With the wind slightly forward of the beam, she dropped off a bit. The more close reached we got, the less we were able to get out of her. Could've been us, could've been the boat. But we quickly made the observation that she certainly liked the other points of sail much better. And she was indeed a blast to sail on thos points.

I would say, IMHO, the 35 would make a nice Caribbean cruiser.
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