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  #21  
Old 07-09-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie
Those Bavarias with the keels that fell off a couple of years ago were also rated Ocean Class A.
Yup.. they were... and weren't capable of crossing a mill pond in bad weather.. .
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #22  
Old 07-09-2007
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ouch.. should have been a little clearer. I wasn't saying it made the boat suitable, since it may be missing handholds, have poor motion at sea, etc. It does say it meets some standard, I was being maybe a bit too glib about the falling apart part. I don't have enough technical knowledge about boat construction to say whether this standard is sufficient for ocean crossings of the type the OP is looking for.

tomaz -- based on my knowledge for new production beneteaus they are not CE rated. That's from researching beneteaus for purchase, and the say so of the jeanneau/tartan dealer. I googled this and I still think I'm right?

Not knocking beneteau's, I like them, they manage to take a tonne of abuse in the charter trade in the caribbean and sail just fine.

One hanse 371 lost a rudder and sank, another had a rudder delaminate, also CE rated.

Early on when Tartan switched to epoxy construction, I understand the hulls weren't cured at a high enough temperature and so had a tendency to lose their shape. Even the marquee brands can have their problems.
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  #23  
Old 07-09-2007
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Paul—

If the boats are sold in the EU, they have to have an EU RCD classification on them...
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #24  
Old 07-10-2007
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Paul, about CE certificates for Beneteau new models:
On some older documentation you can read something like:
Oceanis 40: CE Certification:A8 / B9 / C10 / D10 in progress
On their web site today it stands: Oceanis 40: CE Certification:A8 / B9 / C10
So either their WEB is wrong or the process of the certification is finished. When the brochures were sent to print the certifications were still in progress.
Same for Oceanis 43 CE Certification:A10 / B11 / C12), ...and many others.

Does it make them best ocean cruisers ? Of course not.
Will they be comfortable in bad weather? Of course not.
Will some of them loose the rudder? Maybe - but I found lots of "lost rudders and keels" stories - just not one of them being a 39foot or larger Beneteau. With a mass production like they have - this is strange.
Can they cross the ocean? Yes. And 41 of them will do just that this November on ARC, and many have done it in the past.
Beneteau actually is the most participating yard on the Atlantic crossing rally:Most frequently occurring yards are Beneteau, Oyster and Hallberg Rassy
Did people circumnavigate in Beneteaus? Yes.
Did any of you hear of any Beneteau (39 to 45 feet) loosing a keel (other than hard grounding)? Or hull deck delamination ? How many did loose a rudder?
Do I own a Beneteau (which makes me less objective)? Yes.
Do I hate Bavaria for poor quality ? Ohh, Yes. I sailed a lot of them I want no more.
Would I prefer a Hallberg-Rassy ? Sure I would (or Swan), but for same money it would be 35 feet and not 43 feet and 25 - 30 years old and not 5 years old.
There are lots of Beneteaus in charter - and this means 20 or 30 or more weeks of abuse per year.
I visited a few (after 5 years in charter) - and I was surprised how sound everything still was (structural).
I know that charter does not mean crossing the ocean, but it means that people often do not care to reef on time, they hit stuff, They do not use the anchor snubber (all chain rode), They are often on tight schedule and want to come back to return the boat, so they may go out in bad weather...(even I made 10knots+ in a 32 feet Bavaria in 45 to 50 knots wind as we had to come back several years ago)
Sure some just relax and sunbath, but I have several friends, who can not afford to sail a lot, so when they go - they go in large number on a boat (6 to 8 to a 32 to 40 footer) and they sail like they would never sail again. Bad weather, no problem. Reefing is only for Wimps, Engine RPM - who cares - floor it and go (from cold start). They race each other and hit boats by doing so, hit some rock (why would I look at the chart if you can drink bear....

So, Yes there are better boats on the market. But What is really wrong if someone wants to cross the ocean on a 40 feet Beneteau?
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  #25  
Old 07-10-2007
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Thank you everyone for your replies. It helps a lot!
I also invited Beneteau, Hanse, Bavaria and Tartan officials to speak for their product at this thread.
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  #26  
Old 07-10-2007
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tomaz - i see now, it's on the french beneteau site, not the US site. I guess this is just something they choose not to advertise to US customers, and shame on my for believing the competing dealer.

There's a fellow circumnavigating in a hunter 49 currently There are no hunters in the ARC though hunter owners might like saving money, IIRC the ARC entrance fee is not cheap.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog
Yup.. they were... and weren't capable of crossing a mill pond in bad weather.. .
some impressions from the mill pond in bad weather
YouTube - Voyager in cyclone Valentina
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  #28  
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sailingdog -- sorry i meant Ocean A rated, as in my first post. Though sounds like Ocean A rated may not mean much, as a new boat consumer it seemed like something to look for.
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  #29  
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Nope... Ocean A rating doesn't really say much about the suitability of the boat for making bluewater passages.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #30  
Old 07-10-2007
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I am deeply saddened that Tartan is even mentioned in the same vicinity as the others
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