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Old 07-07-2007
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Question Hanse, Bavaria, Beneteau, Tartan, ... ???

I am looking for new 39-45 foot cruiser for 3 years adventure with my wife and two kids (1 and 4 at the start, so 4 and 7 at the end of the journey). Starting east coast and Caribbean, but like to have an option going cross Atlantic or Pacific later. I plan to sell the boat after that with the idea to downsize for summer and weekend on Great Lakes (C&C 99 is in my dreams since its release; I summer-sail J-24 for 6 years now).

90% single-hand as one of us is with the kids. Will try to avoid 25+ knots. For long runs and ocean crossing will hire an experienced sailor. Will equip the boat with options. Safety and comfort are major factors, and then come resale demand and value. Ready for reasonable on-going cost without compromising safety and comfort for money.

After reading postings on this forum I excluded used, custom and low production boats and came to these four brands: Hanse, Bavaria, Beneteau, Tartan. I plan to test-sale different sizes and look at as many models as I can out of these four.

I understand Tartan does not belong to this group, at least this is an impression I got looking at its price. Does it mean this also outperform on qualities and capabilities? What else is different in between these four: purpose, service, warranty, resale, standard features, options available, maintenance?

I also posted a question in this queue comparing center to aft cockpits and after reading replies I am leaning towards center. This filters my list to Beneteau. Am I right? If yes, is this a right move not to conceder other brands because CC is not available there?

Appreciate your input.
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Old 07-07-2007
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I only have experience with Beneteau and Bavaria. The Bavaria is very nicely appointed, but the Beneteau is a lot more fun to sail. Have sailed Beneteaus a lot in the Pacific NorthWest; they run so well... A good friend of mine sailed a Bavaria from Gibraltar to Ireland and while it was comfortable, it wasn't as much fun to sail. Depends what's important to you. They're both great boats IMHO.
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Old 07-07-2007
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I think beneteau dropped the smaller center cockpits....Tartan is like Sabre a few steps up both in quality and comfort. My 1983 Sabre 38 is much more boat than the 1999 36CC I used to own, and for a third the money. You may look at an older Tartan/Sabre. Hanse is almost too new to really know. Bavaria is real nice and priced right, but may not have the quality over the years to hold up as well as the others.


The Hanse, Bavaria, and Beneteau will need considerable add ons to truly be ocean crossers.
All the best.

dave
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Old 07-07-2007
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Center Cockpit boats built to cross oceans do not include any on your list...though the ones on your list can get you to the Caribe in coastal hops.
Hylas, Passport, Caliber47, Tayana42/47, KellyPeterson44, Brewer 42/44, Bristol 43/47, Hans Christian Christina are some you might look at. There are also a number of older expensive boats you might look at depending on your budget...Hinckley, Little Harbor, Shannon, HR, Oyster.
EDIT: I should further qualify...Tartan makes an excellent boat but I am not aware of CC's except from the 70's. The current 4400 and 5100 are DEck Salon models and have exposed spade rudders which I am not a fan of for ocean cruising.

Last edited by camaraderie; 07-07-2007 at 08:14 PM.
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Old 07-07-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie
Center Cockpit boats built to cross oceans do not include any on your list...
What makes a boat built for cross oceans? I mean what exactly is there on your list what is not on mine? Could you list those technological differences for me to understand? Thank you.
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Old 07-07-2007
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You are going to get a lot of different opinions about what is capable and what is not. I know personally of a Beneteau 370 that crossed the pond, with in mast furling to boot. I would rather do it in a boat twice the weight with a full keel. Your island hopper is not the best for taking across the Atlantic, but then again, your pond crosser will not be very comfortable in the islands. IMHO, if you are going to buy a boat for ocean voyages, get one thats already done it and is outfitted for it, why start from scratch, and why take a 200k Beneteau and spend another 100k to outfit it and get it ready?
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badadim...do a search on bluewater boats here...there are thousands of posts on the subject. The short answer is that they are built to take the constant pounding of the ocean and everything is overbuilt...that is why they cost 2-3 times as much per foot as the production boats you've listed. I've owned a number of production boats and one blue water boat...there is no comparison at sea. You can buy 27' bluewater boats...so it is not a size thing...it is a build quality thing.
There is NO DOUBT that MANY production boats have crossed oceans. My view is that if adults want to do that understanding the increased risks it is their right. When kids are involved I become a bit more vocal.
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Old 07-07-2007
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For 'extencive' oceancrossing and varying conditions the build-up of the boat is essential.
Those You mentioned use in general a 'thin' outer hull and innerliner module.
Unfortunaletly quite some of them end up as 'jelly boats' after some heavy weather when the innerliner starts separating from the hull! And believe that You may avoide 25+ is a dream!
I did my 'trip' in a Jeanneau SO37, and one of the reson a chose that boat was its modern design, but traditional build up. Old type solid hull, full stringers, shrouds attached directly to hull-frames etc. A good 'test' might be to rent a 3-5 year old boat that has been 'out there' and se what it is like after the pounding! I think that might eliminate some of those You have mentioned without me naming them as 'not suitable'.
My 'test report' might give You an idea and some hints.
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Old 07-08-2007
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To draw an analogy between the boats you list, and automobiles - the type of use that you are planning to put your boat through could be compared to the Paris-Dakar Car Rally. Exciting, tough, rewarding !

While many drivers of automobiles may get very interested in the rally when it is happening, follow it in the news and think to themselves "gee - I'd really like to do that someday", most of them will never do much more than drive to work and maybe drive down to Disneyland with the family once a year.

So the people who enter the rallies, tend to buy tough, well-made cars and then customise them for their intended use. They tend to buy and drive things other than Chevies, Fords, Volkswagens, etc..

The vast majority of drivers though, buy a new car, drive it until they tire of it or it craps out, trade it in and get a new one. They buy the Chevies, Fords, Volkswagens, etc..

Hanse, Bavaria, Beneteau and Tartan are the Fords, Chevies, and Volkswagens of the boating world. You want/need something a little closer to a Landrover, or at least a heavy-duty Subaru...

Last edited by Sailormann; 07-08-2007 at 12:14 AM.
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LAND ROVER! I hope you are talking about one of the really old ones that you see in the outback. If you are talking about a new one, his boat will need service by the time he gets out of the marina.
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