Another New-v-Old Question

[sailhog]

It seems to me that there are very few rules of thumb in buying newer vs. buying older, as there are just too many variables. There are also a lot of ways to screw yourself over in buying a boat that needs a great deal of work -- unless you know EXACTLY what something is actually worth. I got incredibly lucky and got a older boat that is absolutely perfect for my family -- and I was/am an idiot. All things considered, I think everyone who loves sailing has to thank their lucky stars that we live in a time that private yacht ownership is available to us. You don't have to go very far back in time when owning a sailboat that can actually double as a home was financially feasible for anyone who wasn't a gazillionaire.

[Valiente]

Originally Posted by JustMeUC

I am not ready to buy my "big" boat yet. I am researching and learning to sail now and plan to buy in 2 or 3 years. Lets say I want a 34ish foot boat to sail the ICW, Bahamas and the Caribbean. I can buy a 2 year old Catalina 34' for $120,000-$140,000 Or I can buy 25-30 year old Tartan 34 for under $30,000 (lets assume in average to good condition for it's age, original engine, sails 10 years old etc etc). Which do you believe will cost me more if I keep my boat for 25 years? I love the looks of the older boats, but lets talk financial costs only. I will pay cash do don't figure in interest.

Sincerely, I can't advise you without knowing your needs. A 30 year old Tartan 34 is a good coastal cruiser for one or two, but snug for a liveaboard. The electrics are likely toast and certainly not to current code. The rigging, if original and if in salt, is probably done. So you have to factor in some coin to get it to "bareboat" status.

Do you want toys? And by toys, I mean refrigeration, a stereo, lots of bright lights, radar, GPS, and a way to get internet access? A 1976 Tartan 34 would have had an icebox, an alcohol stove, four or six 12 VDC auto lightbulbs, maybe a flourescent in the head (which would have been a hand pump Brydon or "they don't make 'em anymore" brand, and probably a VHF lead to the nav station.

That, my friend, would have been it.

Windlass? Not likely. New winches? Self-tailing? Probably not. Lots of blown-out dacron with frayed batten pockets? Sure!

Now, if you can live "lightly on the water" and can have more amenities than camping (indoor stove top, toilet) but less than a trailer (likely no shower, no hot water), then you can have a lot of cheap fun. The boat itself, if maintained in certain critical areas (seacocks, stern tubes, rudder stocks, rigging) will take you anywhere, and you can pop in a few LEDs to replace those hot, amp-hungry old lights. But if you want toys and comforts, you might as well resign yourself to doubling the purchase price, and we haven't even got to the state of the tankage or the engine...a 30 year old diesel==*if maintained*== can be fine, but that is a huge if given that owner stupidity can kill a new diesel in 18 months.

So it's down to you: Personally, I like simple, good old boats, and can get by on the bare minimum of what people currently find acceptable. That's partly because I'd rather be sailing, but also because I never want to be 1,000 NM offshore and faced with using a bucket to crap in with anything but a smile on my face.

But seeing as we HAVE a boat now that makes ice cubes, heat, cold air and boxes that go "beep", I do find that I spend more time fixing and maintaining stuff in the manner of a floating power station than I did when I had a boat with a half-dozen lights, no inverter, no radar and no worries.

[SchoonerMISTRESS]

I think when people refer to older boats being expensive to maintain they are probably referring to a wooden boat.
I think time is relative. One man's older boat, maybe just a younging to the next person.
Two years into our project, a 1930 50' Schooner, the hull had been fully restored; however, there was no deck, house, rig, engine, bulworks, or interior. This is when I ask my husband, "Wouldn't it have been easier to build a new boat"? The answer I got was no.
Someone earlier in this thread said, "Don't make the decision based on money alone. Buy what you like. This makes total sense to me, but be careful. The more you love her the more you will end up spending on her.
I know older glass type boats have a much thicker skin and that's good. The blister issue is certainly something to be well aware of, however, for me, the newer production boats leave me feeling a bit weary. I suppose because Skip works on so many boats and therefore I often hear about newer production boats skipping corners far too often. Older boats (relative term) I think will often be a better deal, providing the person buying them understands what to look for, and how to repair her themselves. Older boats are not for everyone. If you don't think you can do the whole job, let someone else take care of her. Hiring a Master Shipwright can get very expensive. Luckily, my life came with one. Just feed and give good love and care and all boat repairs are free. That's labor folks, not parts. Again, the more you love her the bigger your budget had better be.
Kathleen
aboard
Schooner MISTRESS

[JustMeUC]

My boat will be kept as simple as possible. I like simple!! I just spent a few very happy weeks living in Bolivia in basically a hut. It did have a nice hammock though Simple but happy!

I want to leave the lipstick, high heels, and tv at home, actually, I seldom wear lipstick, high heels or watch tv NOW, LOL I will have to say that internet would be hard to give up. perhaps where I go they will have access somehow! Icebox is fine. I don't cook much and will probably eat out a lot or fix simply foods. I plan on keeping the boat in a warm area and would probably even use an outdoor shower most of the time. No high tech toys that are not really needed!! I honestly plan on traveling to one place and staying awhile. If I am not comfortable in my abilities, I will find a delivery person to get me to my next place.

Again, I really love the looks of the older boats, Tartan's especially for some reason, but if they will cost me much more in the long run than a newer production boat then I will go that way.

[danjarch]

In this case your best bet is " Other Peoples Boats ". OPB's are really inexpensive to enjoy. If you learn how, you can even get paid to use OPB's. Cost of docking a 125' schooner at the Hilton resort and marina, with shore bathroom, gym, pool, and spa privileges, $10,000 a month. Cost to deckhand who's getting paid to watch the sunset, -0-. Ocean front property in Kaneohe bay, If you have to ask.... but if your willing to share a boat with juvenile delinquents, plus get $1700 a month in spending money. $120 per gallon epoxy paint, owners problem.

Plus you'll meet all kinds of interesting people. You'll hear about great deals on other boats. You'll learn a lot about maintenance and sailing. You'll get plenty of offers to cruise for free, and offers to boat sit in exotic locales.

After a few years, on OPB's you'll be in a really good position to get your own boat, with out getting screwed or winding up in over your head. And you can start now. One weekend a month, two weeks every summer, so to speak.

[cardiacpaul]

"Modern built boats with internal mouldings that are part of the hull structure have very thin hulls. If the bonding breaks down between the inner and outer hulls you might not have a boat worth a $1. I doubt if these boats are going to last 40 years .... so depreciation can be quite large if you're the one left owning the boat with the hull mouldings separating ..... a little like 'pass the parcel'?"

Oh, I dunno about that, catalina has been doing just that for, oh almost 35 years.

"Having said that, I don't even have a clue how to change the oil in my car so not sure how much labor I can do on a boat, but I am betting that I become a quick study?"

no offense, but you'll have to or go real broke, real quick.

[jorapazu]

The question is not if the older boat will cost more on the long run, if you don't have the 160k to invest on a new boat, you only have one way to go, buy old, sail now , enjoy, and fix it while you are at it.
regards

[JustMeUC]

Originally Posted by jorapazu

The question is not if the older boat will cost more on the long run, if you don't have the 160k to invest on a new boat, you only have one way to go, buy old, sail now , enjoy, and fix it while you are at it.
regards

I have the money to buy a new one. Not the point for me. I just would rather not spend more than I have to. I am stingy, cheap, frugal.... whatever you want to call it/me, LOL.... Anyway, I am just starting the journey. Next month, sailing lessons, then I plan on buying a small older boat, 22'-25' to learn on for a while. Then in a few years, close up my business and buy a big boat and sail away. So, yes, I am getting way ahead of myself no doubt but for me that is just the way I do things. I am a planner....

[Alden68]

Buy something 5-10 years old. Cheaper than buying new...you have the money so no real big problem there....but the boat will more than likely be upgraded which will save you thousands.

If you buy something 20 years old or older you are buying into a way of life that requires vast amounts of your time, energy and money. For some this is a real dream as they enjoy the work.....for others it spells the end of boating.

Start off by learning and enjoying [B]sailing[B], then sweat the details.

I bought a 40 year old boat and it has been a mixed bag. In hindsight I made a mistake but then again I have a truley unique boat that makes me pretty proud. If I had the money though I'd torch it in a second and go new.

Good luck!

[xort]

Anybody have any thoughts on when the depreciation stops? At some point, inflation will overcome depreciation and your boat value should stabilize. My guess is at 5 to 10 years old depreciation really slows down. New boats have about doubled. Obviously care & condition will play into this but given a well cared for boat...