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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
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  #21  
Old 07-25-2007
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What do people think of this for a boat?
http://www.yachtbroker.com/index.php...imize=17862635

Seems like unless there was something hidden it would almost be ready to put into the water, and I guess the seller lacking the time to enjoy the boat....

One other thing? What do people think of me employing the services of a broker to help with the paperwork and arrangement of the transport and everything? In theory he says he gets payment from splitting the commission with the other broker? Any thoughts?
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  #22  
Old 07-25-2007
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We have had a Niagara 26 since fall 2000. We stayed weekends aboard with 2 adults and 2 younger children for 4 years. Is a good boat for limited coastal cruising and for racing on a budget. Similar interior size to C&C25/26. If you get a larger boat the costs of all gear goes up as well. Boats going cheap may need new sails, etc... so check that out and add to your expected costs esp if racing.

Now to the dig. I am located in Tatamagouche, NS and recently raced my boat from Shediac, NS to Summerside and then took boat back to NS. 150NM in 3 days. Boat is currently for sale and is known by the commodore and a few others at Summerside Yacht club. oat is Full Tilt 2 and is a Niagara 26. details can be viewed at http://users.eastlink.ca/~mhoyt Ask greg Bowles about the boat or perhaps Don Vaniderstine (he has not been aboard but knows the model) or Blair Campbell (same).

If you are interested in racing and in cruising you are looking at a cross between performance and accomodation. Age of inventory, gear that comes with boat, etc.. are important and you should not buy an old boat with old sails if you expect to race unless you plan to purchase new sails equipment.

Sorry for the sales pitch but we have found the Niagara perfect for getting into both cruising and racing without breaking the bank. I see you are in Summerside so thought I would plant the bug

Have fun looking. Looking is the best part until you actually go sailing

PS. would that be Richard Wedge's boat Cajun Spirit that you race on? Great boats.

Mike
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  #23  
Old 07-25-2007
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i have a o-day 25 doing some races here it fun we stay on the boat we can stand up right they give me a good handy cap
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  #24  
Old 07-25-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dumbguy View Post
What do people think of this for a boat?
http://www.yachtbroker.com/index.php...imize=17862635

Seems like unless there was something hidden it would almost be ready to put into the water, and I guess the seller lacking the time to enjoy the boat....

One other thing? What do people think of me employing the services of a broker to help with the paperwork and arrangement of the transport and everything? In theory he says he gets payment from splitting the commission with the other broker? Any thoughts?
i actually looked at this boat when i was shopping. if i recall correctly she is in pretty decent shape with a great sail inventory. what steered me away (so to speak) was the tiller and cockpit traveller. .. last time i saw her she was on the hard and seemed to be missing (thankfully) some of the squishy places on deck some of her counterparts were sporting...the broker i used was Tred-Avon, and the guy i worked w/ is Barry Starke..nice folks all around there
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  #25  
Old 07-25-2007
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That custom 33 is a very nice looking race boat. The traveller is where a traveller should be for racing. The tiller over wheel steering will be tiring so it looks like a decent size crew of at least 5 will be needed to race this boat properly. probably 6-7 be better. If you have that it looks like quite a nice boat. I myself would love to have it!

Mike

Full Tilt 2
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  #26  
Old 07-25-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dumbguy View Post
What do people think of this for a boat?
http://www.yachtbroker.com/index.php...imize=17862635

Seems like unless there was something hidden it would almost be ready to put into the water,
Looks like a terrific boat. It appears to be ready-to-go. As far as the possibliity of "something hidden,": That's what a good surveyor is for. But here's something you should consider when looking at used boats: The average going price. I don't know this line, but $30k seems to me to be at the high end of 33' boats that are 31 years old. That's not to say it's not worth it. Certainly the current owner has fitted her out with top-notch gear all around, and it looks like lots of upgrades and maintenence, as well. Problem is: Unless a buyer really appreciates and wants some of those upgrades, they add little or nothing to the boat's value. There's a 27' Catalina in my area, my wife and I looked at, that's in the same boat, so to say: Current owner has done a terrific job of refitting her, and added some really nice upgrades. So he's trying to get (some of) his investment back out of her. As a result he's got her priced well higher than the market will generally bear for that boat of that age. Is she worth it? To us she would have been, had we not decided we wanted a bigger boat. But consider this: She's still for sale, and we looked at her a month and a half ago. Unless you intend to take the boat with you to your grave, perhaps something to consider.

Jim
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  #27  
Old 07-25-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikehoyt View Post
That custom 33 is a very nice looking race boat. The traveller is where a traveller should be for racing. The tiller over wheel steering will be tiring so it looks like a decent size crew of at least 5 will be needed to race this boat properly. probably 6-7 be better. If you have that it looks like quite a nice boat. I myself would love to have it!

Mike

Full Tilt 2
mike,
i always caution folks that have cruising aspirations to consider shin banging travellers and "excuse me, can you move while i tack/gybe" cockpits.
from a race/go fast perspective this would be a fun boat to have, however, i think something more "cruiser friendly" might be a better option from what i've gleaned from his original post. i think this boat might be a little spartan down below..then again, it depends what or how they plan to use it..
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  #28  
Old 07-25-2007
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Yep - thats racing.

We have a traveller across the cockpit. Thought originally might be a problem. Not the case. Makes the boat far easier to handle short handed as all the mainsheet controls are easily accessed. Traveller and sheet near each other. Have banged shins exactly twice in 6 years. Better yet - when having "passengers" aboard it keeps them out of the way of the helmsman and sometimes helmsman/main trimmer. For any not aware a "passenger" is that person that sits on a sailboat and gets in the way. Nice if you are running a tour boat for the day but a real pain when racing. Sriously though - the traveller nicely divides the space between main and genoa/jib trimmers.

A traveller on the coachroof? Is more for cruising. Is placed out of teh way at teh expense of functionality. If you are racing you want the boat to go as fast as possible given the conditions at the time. The 33 listed above is a race boat that has been well maintained. Not much use for cruising unless you cruise with a crew that gets off at destinations to stay in a hotel.

This post said a "boat for cruising and racing". That means either a race oriented boat that can cruise or a cruise oriented boat that can race. He sailed on a J36 - that is no slouch and may set some expectations. A slow cruising boat with old sails cannot be raced. Any boat is rated under any handicap system based on a boat in RACE CONDITION. this assumes new sails, fast bottom, etc.... as we all know. If the boat is to be raced as well as cruised don't look at anything with old inventory or a shortage of gear .... UNLESS you want to spend a LOT of money.

$29K in Canada is not a overpriced 33' race boat IF the inventory is new. Of course with the US $ tanking that opens up a vast new market taht is no longer looked at with 66 cent dollars.

Stay away from old boats from southern climes because they are more prone to osmosis. UNLESS you have a very good survey done. Stay away from Northern clime boats where water intrusion can freeze and then cause cracks in decks, etc... UNLESS a very good survey is done.

Just find a boat you like and buy it. Most problems can be easily fixed with a bucket full of money. What can not be fixed is a layout you are not happy with or a boat that does not sail to expectations. Also be aware that in boats the Peter Principle also exists (different name). Is easy to simgle hand smaller boats. Is easy for two people to white sail race a smaller boat. As the boat gets larger and more race oriented it requires a dedicated crew. If it is larger and designed to be short handed typically it requires gear that is designed for easier use rather than speed. Roller furling mains, and even roller furling jibs can be a lot slower than a race oriented and cut sail for the same boat - but require less crew. You do not get handicap credits for undercut sails designed for cruising to the same extent they affect performance. So - are yo u cruising and occasionally racing or racing and occassionally cruising? Is important in your decisions. If you have 6 regular crew already lined up and want too race mostly and cruise some the 33 you mentioned would be great. So would a J105 or other newer boat but $$$

I am rambling - but these are all things to be considered. If you want to race and buy a slow boat you will get discouraged and quit racing. If you want to cruise and buy a cramped boat or a boat that requires a lot of crew you will have the boat for sale in a short time. Buy the boat that fits the need first. budget second. There are tons of boats around used and as you are in Canada you now have the entire US to search where boats are typically priced lower.

Have fun. Looking is the best part.

Also - if you want to race the wise way is to crew on a race boat and have fun on your boat.

Regards

Mike

Halifax, Nova Scotia
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  #29  
Old 07-25-2007
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First off... thanks for all the input guys... very interesting reads...

I do anticipate having 3-4 people crewing to race with, potentially getting up to the 5-6 on busy nights, but then there might be nights were I would have 2, and heh, I might just jump on another boat? Who knows


Yea... I'm a competitive person and I guess when I looked at something like this I think... hummmm might be nice to be able to eventually play with the big boys... and yea. sailing on the J36(Cajun Spirt btw , great people to sail with, some of the nicest people I have ever met) has kind of spoiled me on finishing earlier rather then later... I know I wouldn't be setting any records or winning much (for awhile right :P ) but I wouldn't be the last man out... which might make finding crew easier, and as well if we were competitive keeping them.

All good points... a ton of things to consider... I'm getting a quote on shipping and such just to get an idea what that would run me, I'll let you all know, by no means have I made up my mind....

Oh and I could see on a boat like that, if the cruising was more in demand, putting back in a vberth to keep the woman happy, and maybe a fridge at some point....

I know I want it all, the fast competitive cruiser that isn't out all night, and somthing that would be halfways comfortable... though I'm not that picky, and atm there are just the 2 of us... neither of which is overerly tall or large...

But seriously I appreciate the feedback, I will be pooring over all these posts a fair bit. Anyone have any comments on the broker?
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  #30  
Old 07-26-2007
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Re: The Boat

Based on the pics and the write up - I think it's probably a good buy if it's in good shape, but I'm in Canada and I know that our idea of a fair price is higher than the US. That said, there is a maxim that says "you can never pay too much for a good boat, or too little for a poor one".

One thing that you need to be careful of with this boat is the hull. I believe it is cored, hence if there is water in there it may be rotting the core. Fixing this will cost you at least as much as the boat, probably more in the Maritimes.

Check out this website for more information on C&C boats:

http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/

Regarding the performance of the boat... This is not something that sails like a J Boat, or an Express or even a CS or a lot of other newer boats. The PHRF listed in the write up is 162, which would put it into the "sprightly cruiser" category rather than the "competitive club racer" group. You may do well under handicapping rules if you sail the boat nicely, but you're still going to be looking at a lot of transoms.

As far as using a broker to represent you goes. There are pros and cons to it. The listing broker will have to split his commission with your broker, so instead of making 2500 on the deal, he's looking at 1250. This may not be enough money to ensure that he spends much time dealing with the sale.

Personally, I would put my effort into locating a very thorough, independent surveyor and base my decision primarily on his recommendation. Surveyors are almost always more knowledgeable and definitely far more objective than any broker.

There is also some incentive for your broker to push you into buying the boat, simply because it is the easiest thing for him to do, and he also is not earning a very substantial commission on the sale. Certainly, he is going to be a little hesitant about incurring large long-distance telephone bills on your behalf.

All in all - if the boat is as advertised, it's probably a good deal, as all the stuff that needs replacing on an older boat has been taken care of. But the two caveats that occur to me are the cored hull and the PHRF rating, as it seems that you're interested in racing.

I wouldn't stop looking at other options... If you do decide to purchase from the states - PM me and I'll let you know how to import it properly.

Last edited by Sailormann; 07-26-2007 at 10:34 PM.
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