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-   -   Sailboat advise please...? (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-review-purchase-forum/36220-sailboat-advise-please.html)

kldzx9r 08-21-2007 03:45 AM

Sailboat advise please...?
 
Hello Everyone,

I want to buy a sailboat capable of extended trips on open water maybe even from USA to ASIA. I think a longer boat would be more comfortable 42-46 foot length with 2 berths and 2 heads. I was looking in a price range around 100K hoping for that kind of money to get up to date navigation electronics but I didn't find anything I liked. I was trying to find a year of about 1980-1990.

How much do you think I need to pay for a sea-worthy sailboat? I have seen boats priced at 50K and lower and if I got a cheaper boat I might be better off to upgrade the electronics myself. I also like a center cockpit with one berth fwd and one aft and I don't know enough about styles to prefer one over another like ketch, schooner and others but I'd like a fast comfortable boat.

Any ideas? Sorry If I did not provide enough info for replies

Raggbagger 08-21-2007 04:13 AM

Hi Kldzx9r, how much blue water experience do you have ? What did you like and disslike about the boats you went out on? Who is going you and others or just you ? If your looking for capable blue water boats the list is long and wide . What is going to make sense to you , your crew and your experience is going to determine what you should buy .As far as how much you need to pay is concerned you need to make sure whatever boat you choose is surveyed by a reputable marine surveyor first to know if its even worth bothering with . I hope that helps a little

sailingdog 08-21-2007 07:50 AM

How many people are going on this extended trip? The best advice I've heard on buying a sailboat is that "the Primary use is primary." That means, if you're sailing singlehanded or as a couple, then you don't really need a boat with three cabins and two heads. Almost any boat larger than 20' is going to have two berths... A berth is where you can put a sleeping body... a CABIN is where you usually have a double berth and some additional privacy... Berths ≠ Cabins...

I, too would like to know what sailing experience you've got... given that you're looking for a boat that can do bluewater passages. What have you looked at, and why did you not like them? Saying what you don't like would help eliminate a lot of good suggestion that you will reject out of hand and save us from wasting our time.

Also, fast and comfortable generally don't go hand in hand on a sailboat. The faster the boat, generally the less comfortable it will be, unless you have a lot of money.

You could also do a search on the boat buying forum, since you've indicated that you like center cockpit boats, since there have been several threads on center cockpit boats.

SanderO 08-21-2007 09:13 AM

If we are talking fast passage makers, a longer LWL will generally get there sooner and with its added weight might be more sea kindly too, but that does depend on wave form, hull form and sea conditions.

Another often over looked factor when larger yacts are taken off shore is the hand holds one needs in a seaway down below. Spacious cabins can mean no little to hold on to as you move about the cabin and that is just dangerous.

Higher freeboard tends to be a dryer boat as well, which is yet another comfort feature which correlates to a bigger yacht... and of course large means more stores which make passage making a bit easier.

But bigger means everything costs a lot more.. from line, to hardware, fuel, sails you name it... even bottom paint.

Many cruising passage making yachts are sailed by couples, older ones and so bigger yachts means bigger forces and this also becomes a limiting factor.

It's all about balance.

See ya there

jef
sv shiva

Jeff_H 08-21-2007 09:55 AM

Which is all to say, you need to tell us more about yourself and your sailing plans in order for us to provide meaningful suggestions.To provide a meaningful answer to your inquiry we really need more information such as;

-How many people will typically be aboard the boat when you are sailing?
-Will you be living aboard?
-How physically fit are you?
-How experienced are you?
-Where do you plan to sail this boat?
-Have you owned a boat before?
-Are you good at repairs and maintenance?
-Do you have a particular aesthetic sense of what you like or dislike?
-You mention a list of very antiquated rigs. Is there a reason that these rigs appeal to you?
-and so on......

To be frank, you sound like you are just getting into the sport and yet are considering a very ambitious undertaking for your first boat. I mean no disrespect since we all had to start somewhere. Like any other major skill set in life, developing the skills to own, sail, and maintain a big boat takes a while to develop and ideally occurs through some kind of orderly internship, where you start with developing basic skills in smaller and simpler craft and then expand your knowledge from there. In other words, if indeed you are starting out in sailing then perhaps you should think of scaling back a little to perhaps a less than 30 foot coastal cruiser and get lots of sailing time on other people's boats, to learn how to sail and maintain a boat, develop your own tastes in boats and rigs, and then work your way up to buying your ultimate cruising boat.

Respectfully,
Jeff

Cruisingdad 08-21-2007 11:25 AM

KLD,

I do not know if you are the person that emailed me from Cruisers Forum? If so, welcome aboard.

Regarding the boats, I think your boat selection may be too big unless you are planning on coming up with more money. Two different boats: this hemisphere and the next. WHat I mean is that I would prefer one boat for coastal and room, a different boat to cross either pond.

Many of the production boats are capable of crossing a pond and have done it. However, you typically have to get into a larger vessel for that which will break your price bracket. That being said, production boats (Catalina, Hunter, Bene, Jeauneau, Dufour, etc) would be my last choice of boats to cross oceans. They would be my first choice for this hemisphere. Each boat has a design point and a purpose, in my opinion.

If you have not done a lot of offshore work, my strong suggestion is to try and get a little under your boat before dropping 100k+ in a bullet-proof shoe box. I know that is not what most beginners want to hear. THat is just reality. You don't even know if you will like it or be able to deal with it. You may prefer just hanging in the islands or S America, which may really change your boat selection. You can also ALWAYS buy a production boat for the room, and if you have the desire, ship it via Dockwise to NZ or the MED and "coastal" from there.

If you really are focused and determined to cross either pond - go for it. You can do it. I don't want to dissuade you from it... just giving what I hope is good boat selection advice. If you are coastal (which I might define as no longer than 5 days at sea or so on very select weather windows... which is not a big deal), then choose accodingly.

Here is my preference:

Coastal: Catalina 36, Catalina 380. You may need to get a older 380, but it is a fairly heavy tub for its size, built on the old Morgan Hull. THe 36 will be less expensive, but is a very nice sailing boat. Both have been and are all over this hemisphere. THey have also crossed both oceans, but I think there may be better boats for that. I also like some of the older Benes.

Ocean-crosser: Most Bob Perry designs. Older valiants and Tayana are probably my preference. I love the woodwork. You might look into a Tayana 37. I really like that boat. One comment: Although I have been on these boats many times, my experience with Tayanas and Valiants is more from hear-say and dock talk. I have never crossed oceans with either. I am currently at the facility where the V's are made, and have been on several T's. I am trying to give you the best first-hand that I can.

THese are just my opinions. Others may suggest Albers and others... but I have no first hand knowledge of those boats. All the best. Feel free to ask questions.

Fair winds,

- CD

kldzx9r 08-21-2007 11:33 AM

Thank you for the replies. I picked one reply listing questions to reply to about me

How many people will typically be aboard the boat when you are sailing?
1 or 2
-Will you be living aboard?
Yes
-How physically fit are you?
Getting older but I work on a farm alone so I do hard work at times
-How experienced are you?
I am a scuba diver but not much boat experience
-Where do you plan to sail this boat?
From west coast USA to Philippines
-Have you owned a boat before?
No
-Are you good at repairs and maintenance?
Yes
-Do you have a particular aesthetic sense of what you like or dislike?
I like a functional design (hope that is a vailid answer)
-You mention a list of very antiquated rigs. Is there a reason that these rigs appeal to you?
I didn't know they are antiquated. I read in a book basic sailboat styles

My thinking on a boat is to make it as versatile as possible and also to grow into it instead of out of it.

My plan is to have the boat appraised as a condition before buying it. I was told a diesel engine is good to have in a sailboat. Although the boat may be used near a coastal area I still want to have the ability to be in open water for days or weeks.

I was told a Hunter brand was very good. So, far I am thinking I want a 42-46 foot sailboat. From what I have seen for sale I would like to find one for around 50K USD not needing major repairs. Do you think this is possible?

Also to answer another question: I was asked what I saw so far I didn't like. I went on about ten boats and a few more I didn't care to walk next to. Some were dry docked. I tried to look for indications in boats giving the impression they were currently capable and properly outfitted to go out immediately for a trip i.e. electronic gear in tact instead of someone having robbed parts from the boat... some boats had spares including extra sails and riggings. Some boats looked what you'd call "turn-key" needing no TLC while other boats appeared to me to have been neglected by the seller and out of service.

Cruisingdad 08-21-2007 11:47 AM

I would like to refer you to the post I put up above the one you just posted.

In my opinion, I think you need to state your max money and desire to cross oceans, and leave the size out of it. In my opinion, a 40+ foot blue water boat ready to go for under 100k will be very difficult to find. 50K?? No way. Perhaps you should really consider just staying in this hemisphere. THer is more to see here than you can see in a lifetime.

Being out for several days at a time is not a problem on most coastal cruisers.

I will let someone else answer the Hunter question. I feel I should not answer that question.

In all honesty, sailing and cruising and offshore work is not rocket science... but requires a lot of information gathering - and in the case of offshore, a lot of experience. Working a farm is tough work. I am selling my 8 acre country house right now, and I will tell you it is a lot harder than anything I have ever done on a sailboat. You can do it, but you have a lot of learning to get through. Read through a bunch of the old posts on buying a boat, Hunters, offshore/blue water, etc.

- CD

PS Farmers are the most resourceful people in this country. You can do it...

sailingdog 08-21-2007 11:53 AM

I wouldn't suggest getting a Hunter, especially not one that you could buy in that size range for that price. Most older Hunters were not really designed as bluewater passage makers...and one of that size that would be in your price range would be from the darker days of the brand....and in pretty poor shape—definitely not capable of going on an extended voyage any time soon.

That said, most boats, even ones that are fully kitted out, will need some TLC to get ready for a passage of the magnitude you're discussing. I would highly recommend that you reserve about 15-20% of your total budget for repairs, upgrades and re-fitting. Sailboats are not like cars, in that when you buy one, even a new one, it is rarely ready to go out of the box. What worked for one sailor rarely works as well for a different one... and changes generally will have to be made to suit your particular sailing habits.

Given your somewhat limited budget and the fact that you're only going to have one or two people aboard most of the time, I would highly recommend you look at boats in the 30–40' range instead. A bluewater capable boat that is nearly ready to go in this size range will be affordable under the budget constraints you've currently got. The boat will also be easier to handle, and less expensive to maintain and repair.

Some boats that you might consider are the Alberg 30, Alberg 37, Hallberg Rassy Rasmus, Southern Cross 31, CS 36, Cape Dory 30, are all blue water capable boats that are going to be within the price range you've mentioned. Most will leave you enough to nicely prepare and outfit the boat for a Pacific passage.

sailortjk1 08-21-2007 12:05 PM

Just be careful and don't put the Wagon before the Horse.
(How does that saying go?)

Its a wonderful dream, purchase a boat and sail off to distant islands.
There are a lot of us out there who have been sailing for many years, who still would be hesitant to take on such a demanding test.

Long Range Cruising is not for the inexperienced.
Stuff happens and you had better be preppared for the worste.
If your not, than peoples lives become endangered.

I would ask that you slow down a little and seriuosly think about what you are intendending on doing. As a new sailor with little experience, I would think that a few years under your belt before sailing across the Pacific would be needed.

Nothing wrong with the dream, just don't rush into it.


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