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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
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  #11  
Old 03-31-2002
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Westerly

Hi Jeff
I wasn''t suprised to find your post at a topic on a " 26 year old boat with mediocre sailing ability " and "a boat like that " and pretty much the rest of it.
I''m curious as to why you feel you have to jump in and trash someones pride ond joy like that.No... I know why. It''s your bias again. The one that leaves people with the impression that if it''s not a racing sled it''s junk.
Somtimes Jeff you should just keep it to yourself.
My friend Adam says:
" A good boat floats and a bad boat sinks "

Dennis L.
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  #12  
Old 03-31-2002
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Actually, I have appreciated Jeff''s unbiased opinion. It does not seem to me that he trashes anyone''s dream but talks about the realities of what is. I want to buy the best boat for me. Not based on some mindless process but one that is based on knowledge that each sailing purchase decision for most of us is a compromise, since we can''t afford to put the 500k down on our real dream. I would rather someone had the knowledge and willingness to let me know the good, bad and otherwise so I can make a wise compromise. Also, I think that Jeff is clear on his biases. He has never tried to hide the fact that he likes certain types of boats better than others.

So, Jeff, I for one want you to keep being honest then let us make the choices based what you share and of course what others say too.
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  #13  
Old 03-31-2002
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Westerly

dandebruin,
First sentance:
no comment
second sentance:
I happen to like westerlys, and alot of other " slow and old boats". I''m sorry, but I feel offended. Thats the reality of what is.
third and forth sentance:
I agree ,but ,do you base your dream boat on how large or how expensive it is?
Fifth sentance"
I don''t disagree, however, it''s not what is said, it''s how and when it''s said. And if it''s even said at all!
sixth and seventh:
I never said he wasn''t.
I never said he did, but sometimes his post''s are so strong, they''ll knock me over. That isn''t what my comments were about.
last:
I think thats sweet , you sticking up for him and everything, but you jumping in here like you''ve done makes me think that you don''t think Jeff can stick up for himself. Besides, you''ve missed the point.

Dennis L.
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  #14  
Old 03-31-2002
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Westerly

Come on Dennis, have a little thicker skin. I used to be upset by Jeff''s comments on vintage sailboats but came to the conclusion that we are just looking at two different sides of the same coin. There have been a lot of posts by Jeff that I really learned from....Finally, to quote Don Casey, "Never let anyone talk you out of buying a sailboat you like simply because it is slow." To that I would add, "Never let anyone talk you out of buying a sailboat simply because they think its a bad investment. If that were the case, there wouldn''t be anyone sailing at all....and there wouldn''t be any vintage boats on the water...All of us out there on our sailboats have alot in common, but we also all see something different in our boats and in ourselves as to what we like and dislike about sailing and the boats we sail in. I, for one, am fascinated by the many different types of sailboats, I could look at sailboats, inside and out , for days on end and never tire of it, even the ugly ones arouse my curiosity though I could never own an ugly boat, no matter how fast it sailed. I love Centaurs and plan on having my 32 year old boat for many more years to come., I know I''ll never be able to sell it for the money I have invested in it, but thats not going to stop me from upgrading its equipment......Rick
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  #15  
Old 03-31-2002
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Westerly

Dennis

I have no intention of getting into another debate with you about my philosophy of posting on this Forum. When I comment on boats I try to look at them relative to the period in which they were built and on an objective scale relative to more modern and more traditional designs.

You have chosen to take my comments "a 26 year old boat with mediocre sailing ability " and "a boat like that " out of the context that they were used. We were talking about the relative price of a boat of that age and size. When I said "mediocre" sailing ability there is no pejorative sense intended. My point is that the Centaur had neither exceptionally good nor exceptionally poor sailing ability. I used the term "a boat like that " to mean a "31 year old 26 footer" had neither exceptionally good nor exceptionally poor sailing ability relative to a fair price for a boat with those characteristics.

There was nothing in my comments suggested that Kelly should buy a ''sled''. There was in my comments that should be construed that I thought the either of the two boats, and especially the better-maintained boa, was ''junk''. I am not even sure you can even say I "jumped in and trashed someone''s pride and joy". Kelly''s original post asked about relative pricing and ended with, "any input would be great!" I tried to give meaningful input about relative pricing by first restating how this boat would be viewed in the marketplace and then talking about the kind of price you would expect to see on a boat of that age and description. It seems to me that the only "bias showing again" is yours. You are welcome to your opinion, but if you are not going to read posts in the context that they are given, then perhaps Dennis, "Sometimes you should just keep it to yourself."

Jeff
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  #16  
Old 03-31-2002
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Thanks to everyone with your replies and your honesty. I like the Westerly because it is seemingly well built and yes more than likely slow. We have small kids and probably won''t want to be racing for awhile We would prefer the larger room the Westerly has to offer, and forfeit some of the performance. One other boat we are interested in is the Bayfield 25.
Since we are so new at this, are there other boats that fall into this catergory? ...roomy...ample headroom ( over 5''9" )...stable....27 feet and under.

Once again I appreciate everyone''s opinion and input!
Thanks,
Kelly
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Rick,
I hear ya''
Jeff,
I just re- read the post ...again, just to make sure. It was an attack. You wrote it that way and thats the way I perceived it. The way it was written.
Sometimes I do keep it to myself because I don''t want to offend other people needlessly.
The only bias I might have is against smaller to medium size light displacement performance boats but you won''t see me doing what you do sometimes. Other than that, I have no idea what bias you are talking about.
And Jeff, if you didn''t want to get into another debate with me, why did you follow that sentance with eighteen lines of post?

Dennis L.
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  #18  
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Westerly

Hi Kelly, Another boat that would meet your needs would be a Compac 27, quite a bit more expensive though. Bristol made a nice 27 and 30 footer too. Jeff H might be able to help with more recent designs. For your young family, you might want to consider something with a scoop stern for ease of boarding while swimming. I attached a small swim platform with a fold up 2 step ladder to the stern of my Centaur and it makes all the difference when swimming or boarding the dinghy......Rick
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  #19  
Old 04-01-2002
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There are quite a few nice, traditional with good headroom 25 to 27 footers that should be available under $10K-12K and which should meet your goals. My favorite in this category would be the Tartan 27 which is a keel centerboarder. The short list might include: Longer keel boats with attached rudders like the Albin Vegas (27 feet), Bristol 27, Chris Craft Capri (26 feet), Pacific Dolphin (24), Pearson Ariel (26), Rhodes Ranger (26 feet, and not to be mistaken for a Ranger 26)

Or older fin keel boats like C&C 25, Cal 2-27, Chis Craft Pawnee (26 feet, I have never been below on the Pawnee so I am not sure about headroom), Contest 25 (which was the first boat that my family owned when I was 12 or so and my brother was 8 1/2), Ericson 27,

And more modern designs like the: C&C 24 & 26, Pearson 26, Paceship 26 (this is a real nice boat that was also sold as an AMF PS26), Northstar 26 (also called a Northstar Islander), Ranger 26, Tartan 26 (if you can find one with the cruising interior meaning with a Vee berth forward)

All of these are well rounded boats for their era. They offer a wide range of accomodations and speed but all offer good sailing characteristics and should be suitable for a first boat for a family of 4.

One minor point, I in no way meant to put down the Centaur. These are good boats for their era. My points were really directed at the issue of price relative to other boats from that era. There was a fin keel and bilge keel version of this boat. If you have a choice I would suggest that the fin keel version would have better performance and more stability. Back in the late 1960''s I taught sailing at a sailing school that used a 25 foot Westerly what I believe was probably the predecessor to the Centaur. We had both fin and bilge keel versions and the bilge keelers were inferior on all counts; motion comfort, leeway and pointing ability, and speed.

Good hunting,
Jeff
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  #20  
Old 04-01-2002
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In response. I actually like the older slower boats with full keel. I grew up with them and like how they feel. I also appreciate Jeff''s comments. He does not need me to defend him, I like the process of the discussions.
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