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  #11  
Old 09-11-2007
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<>

Don't forget the inscrutable Allajuela 33 !!
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Old 09-11-2007
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Saildog - wow - Im impressed! - thats more information than Ive been able to find..Ive got emails out to every SCowner.org addr I can find!

SA/Dsp ratio - wouldnt the calculation cover how much sail you can hang in the I,J,P & E triangles and hence a cutter rig would have advantages?

Kwaltersmi - thanks for the other suggestions.. pricing wize, for some reason, the SC's Ive seen seem to fall below $40k, even $30k while the others you suggest, in decent shape generally start above $50k

maybe the "owner finished" issue is why there is a strong following on the net..
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  #13  
Old 09-11-2007
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I don't know about how the SA/D is calculated for a Cutter-rigged boat, since I don't deal with them all that much. However, as I said, the numbers I gave you are probably a bit on the low side, since most mainsails are cut with some roach to them, especially if they have any battens in the sail.

The PSC 31, HR Monsun and Mistral, Westsail 32, are other boats you could look at. The HR Mistral will probably perform much better than the PSC31 and WS32, since they're fin keeled IIRC. The Monsun is a full-keel design.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
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  #14  
Old 09-11-2007
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Traditionally, for the purposes of calculating SA/D, cutters are calculated like sloops, in other words using 100% foretriangle.

That said I have seen calcs that use 100% fore triangle plus 100% size of the staysail for the published sail area and I understand that Island Packets SA/D is calculated using the area of a genoa. For the purpose of SA/D and center of effort calcs, sails are always calculated as straight edged, ignoring roach or hollow.

Jeff
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Old 09-11-2007
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Thanks Jeff... Good to know.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #16  
Old 09-11-2007
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SailingDog said: <>

It's not entirely clear, but I assume you meant that only the HR Mistral was fin keeled? As a point of clarification, the boat normally referred to as the "PSC 31" is fin keeled also. Confusion sometimes arises because PSC had an earlier model called the Mariah 31 (designed by Morschladt) that indeed was full-keeled and is very similar to the Westsail 32 in appearance. Probably in performance too.

The PSC 31, designed by Crealock, has a 4'10" fin, or optional shoal draft with a 4' Scheel keel fin variant. This boat is distinguished from its otherwise very similar canoe-sterned stable mates by its traditional wine-glass transom.

Edit: To further clarify, here are some photos of a PSC 31:

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...1&photo=1&url=

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oto_name=Stern

And here is a Mariah 31, also built by PSC:

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...o_name=Photo+2

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...1&photo=1&url=

The Mariah is more in keeping with the SC31/Westsail 32, etc, but the OP did enquire about fin-keeled boats so I mentioned the PSC 31.

Jeff is correct, the SA/D is supposed to be calculated without the staysail area for baseline apples-to-apples comparison (and I've heard that IPs numbers include the staysail too). Still, it doesn't hurt to also run the calculation with the staysail area included to better understand how the boat might perform under certain conditions. We mostly use our staysail when reaching in light air, when the extra area is most advantageous.

Last edited by JohnRPollard; 09-11-2007 at 05:35 PM.
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John-

You're correct...I often confuse the PSC31 and the Mariah, since they're both 31' boats... The Mistral is fin-keeled, as is the PSC 31. Does the PSC31 have a spade rudder or is it skeg-hung? The one on the Mistral is skeg hung IIRC.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #18  
Old 09-11-2007
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I couldn't pass this one up Although i am a bit biased! I "fell in love" with mine last fall for 10k and spent all winter/spring/summer working on it. I had my 4th and best sail last week hitting 6.9knts upwind.....i have no idea why people say these boats are slow. They need speed to tack and dead downwind is a bit rolly but they sail VERY well. I mean it's not going to keep up with G or SD but i really like it. I put the staysail and headsail on rollers so it is very easy to singlehand. They are actually quite manuverable with the huge rudder hanging off the back. I am docked on a small (20' wide) tidal river with strong currents but i can still turn 360 deg. For the money you can't touch a better bluewater boat! I reaserched this issue heavily! The Bayfields, IP's, Baba's are way more $ and not as strong. The Westsail is too slow and heavy (but bigger inside). I'm headed out tommorrow....12-17knts with gusts too 25...yeah!!! I really like the versatility of the sailplan (even on such a small boat). Don't let everyone scare you about the airex...it is Tough stuff. I replaced all my thru-hulls and scraped out the core around them. It was nearly impossible to remove....very strong...even where some water had entered. The BIGGEST issue is the cored area of the deck under the deck stepped mast...it is plywood and there is not enough of a crown for the water to run off, so it seeps in through the mast step bolt and radio wire holes. Mine was 100% wet so i cut it off and re-cored it. It was not very hard (i still can't find reason to justify the cost of repair at most boatyards). Of course most boats have cored decks so it's a common issue. I love my SC.....it is everything i was looking for. Sails well, tracks well, easy to handle alone and very rugged ( i have to keep my kids safe ).
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  #19  
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SailingDog,

Yes, it's a common mistake. That's what happens when a builder makes two completely different models of the same length, even if not at the same time. Perpetual mistaken identity.

Yes, the rudder is skeg hung, with the propeller in an aperture -- not the best for backing down, but well protected from pot warps (we pay them little heed and often sail right over them).

SC31,

Sounds like you got a great deal on a solid boat, even if it needed some work. Enjoy the breeze!
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SC31-

Just curious...but how do you turn a 31' boat in a 20' wide river... I'd really love to learn how to do that... then maybe I could fit a 18' wide boat in a 13' wide slip.

For the money, the SC's are probably some of the best boats for the buck for a bluewater capable boat.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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