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  #11  
Old 10-11-2007
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5) Make sure Tartan/Novis sacks whoever is responsible for this fiasco. It should never have gotten this far along.

How do you sack an owner? Making scapegoats of management or staff is not the answer here. The owner is calling the shots. It's that simple.

As the Germans say, "the stairs always get swept from the top".
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  #12  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T37Chef View Post
I feel for your situation Jim, really, it sucks, and is wrong.

Where are all the other unhappy owners? How many 3700 have been built? How many hulls have cracked? One is to many, yes. Not fixing it...bad, very bad.

And please tell me how court papers prove anything? Last time I check in the US, one is innocent until proven guilty?
Do your homework and build your network. Many are frozen solid and watching and reporting in back channel.

Just pull the papers now and you would see what I mean. I agree, guilty and proven innocent the same as I do free speech. So go and pull the papers.
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  #13  
Old 10-11-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyjim View Post
Do your homework and build your network. Many are frozen solid and watching and reporting in back channel.

Just pull the papers now and you would see what I mean. I agree, guilty and proven innocent the same as I do free speech. So go and pull the papers.
Jim...I just edited my post...after reading again I understood you meant after the case is closed...misread.

BTW...shouldnt you change your screen name to Unluckyjim? Sorry, could help it

Last edited by T37Chef; 10-11-2007 at 08:45 PM.
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  #14  
Old 10-11-2007
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Will Vest...thanks for your post and that is a good offer. She looks beautiful.
I do think that the buzz on this issue around the net will cost Tartan a lot of sales now and in future years unless it is resolved and in a very public manner. Just look at the price Bavaria has paid HERE for a couple of keels falling off on a boat sold only in Europe a few years ago..and they are still paying.
I know Tartan dealers probably can't get involved with this too much on line...but if I were you, I'd be talking with other dealers and with Novis to discuss a path forward that won't damage the excellent franchise that Tartan and Tartan Dealers have built through the years.

Note...I am not saying Tartan has done ANYTHING wrong...I am simply commenting on the fallout from the present discussions all over the internet. You may decide to fight and WIN and publicize that to make your reputation whole again...but if Tartan does not win, I am afraid the damage will be massive. Are the facts clear enough to take that chance?

Anyway...hope that is some food for thought and thanks for coming on to stand behind your boat with an excellent offer.
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  #15  
Old 10-11-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willindvilleva View Post
Hello,

The Name is Will Vest and I am the Tartan C&C Dealer for Virginia and North Carolina. I want to assure you that there is nothing wrong with this boat! I am willing to prove it! You purchase this boat subject to a survey and if the survey discloses any of the problems that this site has been implying then I will pay for the survey!! (and tear up the purchase agreement). What more can I do for the purchaser and the seller?

Will Vest
Tartan C&C Yachts Virginia/NC
804-776-0570
804-370-0265 cell
Will,

I for one would welcome you here. I think many others would as well. I have to say that 'The Other Side of the Story' (as one poster put it) would be very nice to know. Many of us, myself included, have long been fans of your/Tartan's boats. I have always regarded them with very high respect. HOWEVER, the posts I have read both here and elsewhere have become VERY disturbing.

Regarding your offer on the survey, I have to ask if you are aware of the concerns that have been brought up on this and other boards? If so, I would be curious in knowing how you feel a survey would make any difference. It would seem the hull problems would not show up at first - only after use. By that time, the boat is well under the name of the new owner and only a warranty can be of any help. If the warranty is not respected or upheld, I cannot imagine where else an owner would turn short of eating the bill him/herself. THis is the heart of the issues that have been raised... not a broken water pump or a failure to comply to ABYC standards.

I personally would like to point you toward a couple of threads and the details they have provided. I welcome your thoughts and comments. I love your boats... always have... but I find many of the things I have read very disturbing. I truly hope it has all been misrepresented or ther is some missunderstanding which can clear the air.

New Tartan and C&C Shoppers Boat Show Show Checklist

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/showth...ghlight=tartan

All the best. Thank you for your effort.

- CD

EDIT: Just saw you posted too, Cam. I guess we think a like.
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  #16  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T37Chef View Post

BTW...shouldnt you change your screen name to Unluckyjim? Sorry, could help it
With this boat overall, no. There was nothing unlucky...'They' knew exactly what I was getting. Lucky could be applied after what I had delivered to me this week detailing what 'they' knew and when! Overall, we'll leave that to judge and jury...Never under estimate the power of a network and the concern of others going through the same hell...that desire to remain off stage for now!
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  #17  
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One other comment: This site has not implied any of these comments, nor have I or most of the other members. I have repeatedly said that I am not saying anything is or is not wrong (as Cam even said just above me). These comments, as best as I understand it, come from current owners of your boats.

Hope that is clear to everyone.

- CD
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  #18  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willindvilleva View Post
Hello,

The Name is Will Vest and I am the Tartan C&C Dealer for Virginia and North Carolina. I want to assure you that there is nothing wrong with this boat! I am willing to prove it! You purchase this boat subject to a survey and if the survey discloses any of the problems that this site has been implying then I will pay for the survey!! (and tear up the purchase agreement). What more can I do for the purchaser and the seller?

Will Vest
Tartan C&C Yachts Virginia/NC
804-776-0570
804-370-0265 cell
Will,

You should be applauded as you sound like a truly committed dealer and broker. The seller is lucky to have you. You have stepped forward and you are taking on a huge amount of future risk in your statements. You can do only one more thing beyond providing a money back guarantee except, stand by it it to the penny.

Your boat looks very, very fine.
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  #19  
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Stm and 7psych and Will,

Wish you both well on your purchases.

Stm,

My advice to you from someone has walked in your shoes.....stick with one that is several years old and get a good survey. I don't place much value in the warranty on the newer boats as you are ultimately relying on the factory. Your warranty is with them, not the dealer. Get one that already has been vetted if you can.

7psych,

We were owners of a Tartan before our current C&C 121. She was a Tartan 33. Which old Tartan are you moving from?

Are you purchasing from a company owned dealer?

Are you trading the old one, or selling privately?

The 3400 looks like a fine boat and the keel centerboard sure give you options. I looked one of the new ones with the trough boom over well this summer. It was commissioned in the marina we were in. I really liked the spar but wasn't too crazy about the boom. Thought the spar was well done but couldn't justify the look, cost and finish of the trough boom versus an aluminum boom with lazy jacks / stackpak. Have you asked what the price difference might be? Have you sailed one with the keel centerboard and new style rig?

Will,

I admire your straightforwardness. Do you work at a company owned dealership or is it an independent?

How many new Tartans and C&C's have you sold and for how long?

What kind of warranty issues have you had to deal with?

Best wishes to you all.
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  #20  
Old 10-12-2007
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It willl be interesting to watch this progress. I think that the bigger issue here is not the quality of the boats, which, IF there are engineering deficiencies, is not too difficult to remedy, but rather whether the corporation will continue to deal with its customers in the manner that has been reported.

If they do, I believe that this behaviour, rather than any issues with the boats themselves, will become the biggest obstacle to the company's prosperity.

Will's post is laudable, but as another Sailnetter mentioned, in the end it is the factory that is responsible for the resolution of warranty issues. Until they manage to develop a reputation for excellent customer support, I think that things are going to prove difficult for them.

I believe that Novis would benefit by emulating Catalina's service model. While I have heard various comments - good and bad - about the boats themselves - I have never heard anything but very positive statements about the support and customer service the company offers, to both new and resale buyers.

Hence, I like the boats more than I would otherwise. I recommend them to friends and acquaintances, and will continue to do so. In my opinion, there are faster, prettier and stronger boats on the market, but I know that if a newbie buys a Catalina and has a question, they can always call the factory for help.

I would venture that Catalina's marketing budget, when taken as a percentage of sales, is a much lower figure than that of Novis, yet they continue to prosper simply because people want them to. They have created goodwill in the marketplace.

Novis is the current proprietor of two brands that had accrued huge goodwill in the marketplace. The boating communty was saddened when Tartans and C&C's experienced difficulties, and there was excitement when it was announced that the marques were to be resuscitated.

That goodwill, of which a substantial amount remains, is the only asset that Novis can actually depend on for its survival. If that is squandered, the molds, dies, supplies, furniture, drawings - everything else - is worthless.

There are hundreds of companies out there making boats, but there was only ever one C&C and one Tartan. Countless thousands of people learned to sail, to cruise and to race on those boats. A lot of those people finally have the time and money to buy the "big" boat, and would love nothing better than to get a brand new C&C/Tartan.

It doesn't make a huge difference if the boat costs them $245,000 or $275,000, as long as they feel that they are getting a piece of the dream. So I can't for the life of me understand why I keep hearing derogatory comments about the service and recently, product that Novis is producing.

The hard part has been done for you - all you have to do is make good boats and be nice to people.
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