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  #21  
Old 10-25-2007
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GS40,
I agree that you got a whole lot of nothing from the messages generated. If you wanted to be talked out of "goin", you got that....I'll apologize for them to you....
You don't want a flat bottom boat in the ocean...too rough riding. You want the keel to be 40% (or there about) of displacement...that will help you get back upright in a knockdown. You don't want alot of beam for length ratio...that way she'll be more apt to come back from turtle. And, go as deep as possible...righting moment. I'd be really suprised if, wherever you may go, you can't get in with 6 or 8 feet hanging below you....
Oh ya, go sailing alot ! ! ! Even if you're an experienced sailor, GO SAILING A LOT !!!!!
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  #22  
Old 10-25-2007
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boat list

here is a list of off shore boats to consider
http://www.mahina.com/cruise.html
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  #23  
Old 10-25-2007
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Originally Posted by jhowe005 View Post
GS40,
I agree that you got a whole lot of nothing from the messages generated. If you wanted to be talked out of "goin", you got that....I'll apologize for them to you....
You don't want a flat bottom boat in the ocean...too rough riding. You want the keel to be 40% (or there about) of displacement...that will help you get back upright in a knockdown. You don't want alot of beam for length ratio...that way she'll be more apt to come back from turtle. And, go as deep as possible...righting moment. I'd be really suprised if, wherever you may go, you can't get in with 6 or 8 feet hanging below you....
Oh ya, go sailing alot ! ! ! Even if you're an experienced sailor, GO SAILING A LOT !!!!!
Excuse me? I don't think anyone tried to talk him out of going. I didn't. I even started off my thread with: If you want to corcle the globe, go for it! I did give him a very small dose of the reality of doing it.

I was not a jerk, neither was Giu or K1 or anyone. In fact, I think we were quite nice. Instead, he puts some comment out about being a Catalina Tech editor I don't know anything about passage making, or something like that. Where did that come from??

Nah, don't apologize for me. I did nothing wrong, or Giu or anyone. He could have responded back totally different and his responses would have been totally different.

- CD
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  #24  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonesailin40 View Post
Thanks for not attacking my simple question.

Robin Graham did not make it around the world in a 24' lapworth he finished his voyage in a 33' Allied Luders.

There is no such thing as a dumb question but as many of your fellow members continue to prove there is an endless supply of dumb answers.
Of course you are correct with regard to Robin Graham. After two dismastings and a few (minor) problems with delamination of the hull-deck joint, he updated to a slightly larger boat. He did, however, complete the bulk of the circumnavigation aboard the Lapworth boat. Funny, I looked up some history of the boat, and found out that it lived where left it until a few years ago where it sunk during a tropical storm.

I sailed aboard a Lapworth 24 a few years ago. No way in heck would I dream of sailing that thing offshore.

One of the largest lapworth designed Cals was the Cal 46. He originally designed it for himself and his wife to sail the world in their retirement years. For a liveaboard, they are wonderful boats.

Cheers,
Scott
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  #25  
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I was out of line. Sorry bout that.Sure you all meant well. Sorry I asked such a generic and simple question. I was trying not to preload any thought into your heads and was attempting to be vague on purpose.
Many of you guys come off as a bit pompous and condescending.
And the notion that such an expensive vessel is required to safely navigate through the waters of this world (at least that is the way it sounds on this board) is just nonsense.
Most of the reading material on my shelf suggest otherwise.

Anyway sorry I ruffled your feathers.
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  #26  
Old 10-25-2007
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Out of curiosity (and I'm sure I'll get flamed here, but it's turning cold here in the Northeast so I can use some heat )... I posted almost the exact same question last week (and it was even linked to here) and none of you jumped on me the same way you jumped on gonesailin...? Everyone answered my questions thoughtfully and gave me an honest opinion. With gonesailin people seem to be questioning his goal instead of answering his question... IM (very)HO, I actually could interpret some of the comments as inflammatory and not representative of how caring this group actually is. OK... come run me off my soapbox now!!!! I'm ready!
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  #27  
Old 10-25-2007
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Gosailin40 was posting in the off topic area. I found his post so far out in left field, I wasn't even sure what part of the world he was from, never mind this country.
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  #28  
Old 10-25-2007
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Originally Posted by labatt View Post
Out of curiosity (and I'm sure I'll get flamed here, but it's turning cold here in the Northeast so I can use some heat )... I posted almost the exact same question last week (and it was even linked to here) and none of you jumped on me the same way you jumped on gonesailin...? Everyone answered my questions thoughtfully and gave me an honest opinion. With gonesailin people seem to be questioning his goal instead of answering his question... IM (very)HO, I actually could interpret some of the comments as inflammatory and not representative of how caring this group actually is. OK... come run me off my soapbox now!!!! I'm ready!
I know your sailing experience. To the best of my knowledge, I have never spoken to him. In other words, I have some background on you. We have talked before.

I am not sure which way I came across like 'that', honestly. It was not my intention. I traditionally word my phrases carefully. SHort of photoshopping a few people here, I go out of my way not to ruffle feathers - even whien I probably have the right to do so.

I ASSUMED, incorrectly I guess, that he had little/no sailing experience and wanted to sail around the world in a shallow draft boat. I could not count the number of times I have had people that have never set foot on a boat come to me about buying a Valiant to circle the globe a couple of times. Now, is their dream stupid. No. Hell no. That is what it is all about. But MANY people dream of doing it and end up getting the wrong boat - only to find out they would have been happier with a Catalina (for example) cruising North America or South America or the inbetween in comfort. THey end up frustrated and broke.

I personally would rather keep them around and invite them over for a sunset drink of my tub.

I cannot speak for everyone, but only for me. I hope that answers your question.

- CD
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  #29  
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Originally Posted by gonesailin40 View Post
I was out of line. Sorry bout that.Sure you all meant well. Sorry I asked such a generic and simple question. I was trying not to preload any thought into your heads and was attempting to be vague on purpose.
Many of you guys come off as a bit pompous and condescending.
And the notion that such an expensive vessel is required to safely navigate through the waters of this world (at least that is the way it sounds on this board) is just nonsense.
Most of the reading material on my shelf suggest otherwise.

Anyway sorry I ruffled your feathers.
Thank you for the apology. Accepted here. Pease accept mine for a poor assumption.

- CD
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  #30  
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To go to the original questions. I wonder really how many places are restricted to a 4' draft. The French canals can take around 5'- 5'2". I understand the ICW is about the same, and in the Caribbean 6' draft will limit some of the places, but mostly you can anchor out a bit. Besides there is a wide choice of places to go. However, those are not my waters.

From a safety point of view, I don't know that strictly it makes too much difference but most offshore boats are 5' 6" to 6'. The greater depth gives a greater righting moment so less ballast is required lessening sail area for a given SA/Displ. That makes it easier to handle to a degree. Conversely the SA could be increased making it faster in the light.

The deeper draft could go to windward better which could be useful and a safety point but most cruising is downwind and longkeeled boats can go to windward if not as well.

The shallower draft models, say where it is an option, would tend to have more ballast to compensate for it being higher, and thus tend to be a bit slower, again SA/Displ.

Full keels are shallower slower in the light and make more leeway. Arguably they have a more comfortable motion, although there is some dissension on this. Probably a compromise of a cutaway forefoot is the middle ground.

Extra speed might have some benefit in less potential exposure to storms, but for a given size assuming trade winds the difference is probably under 5% which is 21 days not 20 on a very long passage. You could well more than make that up by reasonable sails and say a folding prop, and good trim.

Although there are areas of lighter airs this may be more of an issue in coastal sailing and downwind you have the option of a cruising spinnaker.

Offshore comfort and the ability to hold a course makes selfsteering easier and thus less tiring, which tends to favour the cutaway or full style.

I don't know the detail of centreboard styles but some qualify as ocean going. They would save leeway, be slightly faster through less drag, but because of less weight down deep have the disadvantages of shallower drafted boats in other respects. You could anchor closer but it is another thing to jam or go wrong.

One thing like draft cannnot be taken in isolation, because for a given righting moment displacement sail area, speed leeway and drag come into it. I think if you look at a designer like Perry or other successful designs you will find he uses mainly 5' 6" - 6' maybe down to 5'. This seems to represent the best compromise. Four foot is out of the ballpark, unless you go into cats or sail in a restricted area.

As someone pointed out most Americans can and do end up doing that.
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