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  #11  
Old 10-28-2007
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gavinandrebecca is on a distinguished road
thanks z
dont need crew by any chance?
Will be in LA 9th jan
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  #12  
Old 10-28-2007
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Something to bear in mind, purchasing a boat is not just a practical decision, but an emotional one as well. While Boat X may be perfect for what you want, it also may be butt ugly to you. It can be difficult, to say the least, to spend the requisite funds on a boat you don't like looking at.

Or, it may be the perfect boat, when you look at it at the dock, but have flaws once under weigh. And as always, there is the cliche of "One man's junk, is another man's treasure."

Great deals are usually only found by accident, and those accidents usually only happen if you're out looking. Not at any specific "non-crap" boat, but anything available.
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  #13  
Old 10-28-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavinandrebecca View Post
Hi everybody
we, like lots of others are coming to the US to , hopefully, buy a boat to sail back to australia. I know about oz custums tax, GST, PLUS the ridiculous quarrantine issues which must be navigated to import a yacht. Now it seems every yachty is quick to say this is good, i love my boat, so what i am after is which are bad, and why? And is it dangerous to take a x-charter beneteau 411 or jeaneau40 across the pacific and why? been looking at tayana 42, 39 fast passage, corbin 39, to name a few, though these are '80s and i can get 2000 chartererers for same if not cheaper.
Any way who has owned a crap boat
I can't offer any advice about the x-charterboats. Zanshin seems to know a fair bit about it, but I would also direct you to an earlier post he made about a problem he had with his ex-charter boat (which may or may not have had any connection to its charter history): Losing rudder at sea (see post #14 for details)

However, I can toss out a few other models that are similar in design and size to the double-ender/canoe sterns you listed:

-Valiant 40/42
-Pacific Seacraft 37
-Pacific Seacraft 40
-Southern Cross 39
-Slocum 43
-Alajuela 38
-Ingrid 38
-Westsail 42
-Westsail 43

I've always liked that Corbin 39. It comes in aft and centercockpit versions. Good luck to you.
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  #14  
Old 10-28-2007
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You are looking for specific attributes that aren't likely to be found in the charter fleet, in my opinion, because those boats exist to serve drinks and food in pretty locales, not to make passage.

There was an Aussie delivery skipper here a few months back who seemed to know his stuff...he took something in the 45' range out of San Diego, I think, and half his gear broke...can't remember his name.

Anyway, here's a tip: A lot of people spend years getting decent passagemakers fully equipped and then they hit their first patch of crappy weather, start fighting and decide that they hate sailing. Frequently, this happens in Panama or the Western Caribbean. Consequently, you can find extensively equipped (sometimes overly so), priced-to-move "expedition boats" bobbing on moorings just in front of the Canal, abandoned by people who didn't take into account the human element of long-term cruising before they spent $250,000 on a boat that could circumnavigate. There are also a lot of people who try to "save their marriages" via cruising, only to learn that if you don't like your spouse on land, you'll HATE them with bilges full of vomit in a Force 9 off some tropical reef...

So I would get a type "cruiser" and a length range "38-45 feet" and a place "Central America" into Yachtworld.com and start reading. If you use brokers, owner contacts and third-party research (go to various cruiser forums and say "Does Boat Model X, year Y, have known bad habits for the purposes of passagemaking and an eventual life off the Great Barrier Reef?", you will soon narrow things down to a few choices.

Then you can spend a week in Panama visiting boats. I've seen some great bargains (that may have been junk, but you have to do your homework), and had I not found our passagemaker literally without bicycling distance, a trip to Panama to see half a dozen prospects was very much something I was considering...because purchasing someone else's failed dream may seem ruthless, but it's an excellent way to lower one's own costs.

I just recalled that the Sea of Cortez in northwest Mexico is also a good place to find "dead dream" boats.
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  #15  
Old 10-28-2007
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Having never owned a Mac, nor known anyone who owned one, I can only speculate as to why people love them, but I'd guess it has something to do with the way it's used. When the owner tires of "sailing", or bad weather looms, they can crank up and zip back to the dock. Don't get me wrong. If that's where you live, good on ya! It's just not in the same class as what I would consider a true sailboat.
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Obviously avoid Hunter, Catalina and Beneteau for anything other than a planter in front of a restaurant. Another approach might be to shop for a designer. Perry designed boats always seem to be built well . Brewer, and crealock also come to mind. I always prefer a boat with a single designer rather than one from a design "team' (committee)
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  #17  
Old 10-29-2007
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Hey thanks every one, been looking for two years but mainly at x charter, the realised they are light shoal draft, consequently low on stability. Then there is the rig?? have been on race boat (X sydney-hobart) and the helmsman put the sail, plus half the crew in the drink! Wife is now convinced that these production boats lay down at sthe first puff. I think i'll start another thread, but has any 1 heard of bene, jene catalinas capsizing?? Thanks for your sage advice, I do like the fast passage though.
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  #18  
Old 10-29-2007
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If you fancy stuff like the Bass Strait, the "Bene, Jene, Catalina" production boats (sometimes called "Bendytoys") aren't for you. I would say that Australia and South Africa are similar in that the band of "coastal" sailing is rather narrow, and has the potential to turn "bluewater" far too quickly for the light-air, "casual" sailing that's dominant in North America.

There's nothing wrong with these boats, and they make a lot of people happy, and, properly run, they can do oceanic work. But many, many models are not appropriate for such work, and every year we read of U.S./French production boats going to pieces in the Transpac or the Newport race. It's not worth it if you know you are looking at regular instances of 40-50 knot gales. Charter boats are too fluffy for that, and there are better choices from more selective builders.
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One suggestion would be to find the yard which maintains the charter fleets, bring a few beers, and have a chat with them after quitting time. I spent a winter in a Sunsail yard and got some eye-opening info about the newer charter boats. Some manufacturers have started glueing the grids into the hulls with polyurethane, rather than glassing them down. The yard was trying to fix one of those boats which had hit a rock and broken the glue joint. They had to strip the entire interior and glass the grid back in. They also got a fax that the forestays were pulling out of the Cyclades--latest and cheapest line of Beneteaus. They checked one and sure enough, the stem fitting was pulling out of a very light layup. That was the year that the Bavarias were out of the water having their keel supports strengthened.

Having said all that, I have taken a Bendytoy (First 456) around the world without problems. If you see more than 40 knots between the Caribbean and OZ, you are either damned unlucky or aren't watching the weather.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donradclife View Post
Having said all that, I have taken a Bendytoy (First 456) around the world without problems. If you see more than 40 knots between the Caribbean and OZ, you are either damned unlucky or aren't watching the weather.
That's a big Bendytoy, and the Firsts were built a little better in my opinion than the current models.

I think you may have more experience or better judgement than most if you did a circ. without incident, but a 45 1/2 footer is inherently going to be a stronger boat than something in the high 30s, even in the production boat style.

All things being equal, I would rather (if short-handed like most cruisers) have something beefier, if only for the reason that 1) I'm not likely to be in a rush, and 2) a beefier hull can take a couple more shots on a reef before failing, buying me time to either solve my problem or safely get off the boat.
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