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  #21  
Old 10-30-2007
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Hey thanks boys and bas straight NO F%^$N WAY! I remember the 98 sydney hobart race. Dont plan on going below 20 lat, way too cold 4 me. think i will aim at my original 3 choices
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  #22  
Old 10-30-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgan3820 View Post
Obviously avoid Hunter, Catalina and Beneteau for anything other than a planter in front of a restaurant. Another approach might be to shop for a designer. Perry designed boats always seem to be built well . Brewer, and crealock also come to mind. I always prefer a boat with a single designer rather than one from a design "team' (committee)
Excuse me, a planter in front of a resturant? Bull xxxx.

If you want to tell the original poster why they are not intended for Long Range Cruising; fine. But there are plenty of us that use our boats for there intended purpose, which in my case is costal cruising.
Why does this crap happen everytime?
IF you purchase a boat with the intentions of using it in the way IT WAS DESIGNED to be used, than you will be a very happy boat owner. Buy a Bending to sail across the Pacific and your not going to be happy, but to say that you should plant flowers in them is crap.
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Last edited by camaraderie; 10-30-2007 at 08:58 AM. Reason: language
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  #23  
Old 10-30-2007
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I agree. Slagging the Bendytoys/Catalinas, etc. for not being anything except exactly what their owners want is ridiculous. Very, very few sailors do anything but fair-weather coastal sailing, and the emphasis is always going to be on convenience, spaciousness and rapid, windward sailing. The boat designs that emphasize safety, endurance and durability in the face of big seas (which they in turn may rarely see even in the open ocean) are frequently narrow, snug and deep...by design (less distance to fall, more interior devoted to stowage/systems).

It's a stupid and unproductive argument. Catalinas are the most popular boats in the world because they have the best combination of features that suit the intentions of the largest number of sailors. I'm not one of those sailors, but even I realize that I've got the wrong boat for Lake Ontario even as I believe it's the right boat for a Marquesas run.

The only problem is when people think coastal boats are adequate for blue water, but that's not a design issue...it's an ignorance issue. You don't take a Camry off-roading, but that doesn't mean it's a crappy car. It's an exceptionally good car...if you don't drive off-road!
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  #24  
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I could not agree with you more, sailortjk1. Yacht designers don't design yachts that nobody wants. They design boats that they believe have a market. MacGregor designed the 26X for people who want to get to their destination quickly, sail around a bit, and then go home. Those buyers aren't sailing purists. They'd rather motor than drift. They don't care about racing. They don't need a boat that can stand up to a gale and big seas, because they'll never sail it in a gale or big seas. It serves their needs, and they're perfectly happy with it. When people demean those boats or their owners, it reveals more about the critics than it does about the boats. The critic reveals his own blind spots - his biases. He can't see the value that others see in the boats.

I've crewed on J's and Etchells and Catalina's and Beneteaus and Hunters and Pearsons and C&Cs and S2's and a variety of other racing and cruising boats, and have had as much fun sailing and racing Beneteaus as Js. I've seen well-sailed MacGregors beat more highly-regarded boats, and I've seen well-sailed Catalinas humiliate similarly sized Js, scratch.

Many boats that are designed to sail and race around lakes and bays have no business going to sea, and many boats that are designed to go to sea can't sail anywhere other than in trade winds. Neither type of boat is what I would call a "crap boat." They are what they are. The former would be no good at sea, and the latter would be no good racing around the buoys. A few boats can do both fairly well, but that doesn't mean that all other boats are "crap boats."

If a young family can afford to learn to sail and race on an inland lake in a MacGregor or a Hunter, it doesn't reflect well on others to demean their choice.
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  #25  
Old 10-30-2007
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I think that these last three posts have said it all. Every boat to it's use.

Maybe the original question should have been stated something like.....

What boats/models/years might be know for problems I should be on the lookout for?

It seems every maker has a model, or set of model years that have an inherent problem or two.

I have a great respect for Tayanas; but didn't they have a year or two when they tried an experimental epoxy or lamination that turned out disastrous? Maybe it was another maker, but you get my point.

I know there are way too many examples of this to cover all of the possibilities; but there seem to be some that come up with fair regularity, adn it would be a much more productive conversation than "Yacht XYZ is a bunch of CRAP!!!!!"

More useful would be, "If looking at Yacht ABC, watch for ##$$#, because in the mid -90's they did this or that...."

I agree with the slamming of Catalinas, Hunters, etc; it's just ridiculous. If Catalinas were so bad, why are so many from then70's and 80's still sailing with happy owners. Simple answer; they answer a need; and for people with that specific need, they are the best answer.

My 2 cents worth and "you get what you pay for"...(meaning my opinion, not referring to boats)......

Fred
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  #26  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AjariBonten View Post
I think that these last three posts have said it all. Every boat to it's use.

Maybe the original question should have been stated something like.....

What boats/models/years might be know for problems I should be on the lookout for?

It seems every maker has a model, or set of model years that have an inherent problem or two.

I have a great respect for Tayanas; but didn't they have a year or two when they tried an experimental epoxy or lamination that turned out disastrous? Maybe it was another maker, but you get my point.

I know there are way too many examples of this to cover all of the possibilities; but there seem to be some that come up with fair regularity, adn it would be a much more productive conversation than "Yacht XYZ is a bunch of CRAP!!!!!"

More useful would be, "If looking at Yacht ABC, watch for ##$$#, because in the mid -90's they did this or that...."

I agree with the slamming of Catalinas, Hunters, etc; it's just ridiculous. If Catalinas were so bad, why are so many from then70's and 80's still sailing with happy owners. Simple answer; they answer a need; and for people with that specific need, they are the best answer.

My 2 cents worth and "you get what you pay for"...(meaning my opinion, not referring to boats)......

Fred
I think the original post was fine; the problem arose when a few folks decided to engage in something that's fairly common on Sailnet--bashing of production boats. I really don't understand it---if they have such great boats themselves then they should be thankful/happy/content. The need to belittle others is a pathology.
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  #27  
Old 10-30-2007
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Hmmmm, I agree about the first post. Mainly I think the thread title contributed to the tone of the conversation. Some things are like cheese to rats, as it were.

I don't get the bashing others stuff either; never have. There are some people who make it their life's work, though.

Personally I think its a problem of teeny weenies.

Fred
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  #28  
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Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice
I rather have a recent Benetau than any boat prior to 1990. And I don't care what boat it is.
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  #29  
Old 10-30-2007
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Originally Posted by Giulietta View Post
I rather have a recent Benetau than any boat prior to 1990. And I don't care what boat it is.
I'd rather have a Discovery 55...or



or the Outbound 52...



Can someone tell me where that money tree is...?????????????

Last edited by T37Chef; 10-30-2007 at 04:27 PM.
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  #30  
Old 10-30-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AjariBonten View Post
Hmmmm, I agree about the first post. Mainly I think the thread title contributed to the tone of the conversation. Some things are like cheese to rats, as it were.

I don't get the bashing others stuff either; never have. There are some people who make it their life's work, though.

Personally I think its a problem of teeny weenies.

Fred
Good point, Fred. The word "crap" kind of did point the way, didn't it?
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