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awatson 04-15-2002 09:19 AM

Recommendations on a 22 - 26 ft weekender?
We need to hear opinions on what would be a good "compromise" boat for weekending in coastal Maine. Doesn''t have to be a bullet, but needs to be able to get out of it''s own way. Doesn''t need luxury, but needs to sleep 2 in relative comfort. (Sleeping 4 uncomfortably would be a plus). Would prefer something that has an outboard, don''t want to deal with inboard propulsion quite yet. This would be a first boat for people who have done a good deal of one-design racing and powerboating, and thus, have some experience - not complete newbies.
Thanks for any insight.

Mclion71 04-15-2002 10:44 AM

Recommendations on a 22 - 26 ft weekender?
Look for a Pearson. They''re out of production now, but, they''re overbuilt and should meet your needs. We bought a 1976 28'' last year and love it. Especially as "First Boat".

scnicklefritz 04-16-2002 10:07 AM

Recommendations on a 22 - 26 ft weekender?
Have you considered the McGregor 26''?
They are easy to trailer, easy to set up for sailing and a pretty good weekend coastal cruiser.

A decent used boat and trailer might cost no more than 5k or so.

SailorMitch 04-16-2002 10:17 AM

Recommendations on a 22 - 26 ft weekender?
It would help narrow the possibilities if you''d state your budget. Being another Pearson owner, I think Mclion is giving sound advice. (He also is the proud owner of a tube of Dow Corning High Vacuum grease, so watch out for him.)

Check out a Pearson 26, or a Triton or Renegade in addition to the 28 (of which Pearson built three different models through the years) that he mentioned. I own a P-27, which was introduced in 1987, so most of them have inboard diesels.

Give the good folks here a price range to think about and you''ll get better answers. There are all kinds of boats in this size range -- Catalina 25, Cal 25, O''Day''s, Quickstep 24 even.

Pangaea 04-16-2002 04:50 PM

Recommendations on a 22 - 26 ft weekender?
I agree, and out of the three Pearsons mentioned, I personally would favor the Renegade at 27 feet.
Would you care to hear more info on her?
The Quickstep is a very pretty boat.


awatson 04-17-2002 09:35 AM

Recommendations on a 22 - 26 ft weekender?
Thanks for the repsonses. I agree that the Quickstep is a real pretty boat. I''d never heard of them before. Our price limit is $12,000 for boat, decent sails, basic equipment, reliable outboard, etc. It won''t matter whether it comes as a package or has to be "assembled". What about Cape Dory? Would that be an option? How do the reputations of builders like Pearson, O''Day, Catalina, CAL, Quickstep compare? We wouldn''t want a boat whose manufacturer has anything less than an excellent reputation. (Think "Boston Whaler" in the powerboat world...)
Thanks again.

Jeff_H 04-17-2002 09:37 AM

Recommendations on a 22 - 26 ft weekender?
There are a lot of options here. It would be helpful if you mentioned a budget but focusing on the "needs to be able to get out of it''s own way" and "people who have done a good deal of one-design racing" I suspect you are probably looking for something faster and more modern than a Pearson Rebel.

Beneteau First 235,
These are really neat little daysailor overnighters. They came in a number of versions including a fixed fin keel, swing keel and shoal draft fixed keel with twin rudders. Very nicely detailed boats that sail quite well.

Capri 25: These are not the best built boats in the world but they sail very well and can often be purchased quite cheaply.

J-22: I''m bound to get pounded on this one but the early ones had a nice sized vee berth and small head and galley unit as an option. These are more daysailors than weekenders but they are a lot of fun to sail.

J-24''s are common as dirt and can be found quite inexpensively in non-racing condition.

Kirby 25,
I had one of these and really liked it. Pretty spartan down below but fun for a couple to spend weekends on. You need to find one with a head in the forward compartment and both of the galley modules (sink and stove tables) which is actually pretty rare but easy to build.

Pearson 26 and Pearson 26 one design. Reasonably good sailing boats near the bottom end of what I would consider "get out of it''s own way" territory.

Ranger 23:
I have always had a soft spot in my heart for these boats. They sail well and had decent accomodations for a boat this size. I always figured that if short of cash, and had to own a boat in the worst way, I would probably buy one of these. In fact even if I wasn''t short of cash just wanted a small simple mess about I''d probably look for one of these.

Santana 23
Neat little dagger board boats. They offer excellent sailing ability and the ability to trailer. Usually they are quite cheaply priced. Here''s a reputedly nice one.

Santana 525:
See my comments on the Kirby 25.

S2 7.9
Nicely rounded little designs built in a range of options from out and out racer to nice little weakender version. Available with fixed fin keel or a daggerboard.

Wylie Wabbit.
Ok so its not the most comfortable boat but what a neat little daysailor overnighter.

Lunchtime is over but that should get you started.


Pangaea 04-17-2002 01:15 PM

Recommendations on a 22 - 26 ft weekender?
Hi Jeff,
I''m not trying to start anything here(thats in the "ketch rig" section) but I''m curious. When it is said "get out of it''s own way", How much difference in speed and performance are we talking about?


Jeff_H 04-18-2002 04:02 AM

Recommendations on a 22 - 26 ft weekender?
From where I sit I think that difference between a slow boat and one that can "get out of it''s own way" obviously depends on the size of the boat, but for two approximately equal length boats, I would say that the difference between the two would be PHRF rating difference somewhere between 30 and 90 seconds a mile with 40 to 50 seconds being very significant in the way boat feels to sail or the distance run in a typical day.

Before you sit there, do the math, and conclude that at 40 seconds a mile after a 20 mile sail that means the faster boat is only 13 or so minutes faster, I want to explain why a 30 to 90 seconds a mile is significantly faster than that in real sailing conditions.

The PHRF is calculated at the average prevailing windspeed for a given region. This is typically around 10 to 12 or so knots of wind. At that windspeed there is far less difference in speed between a lighter faster boat than a more traditional design. Both are moving pretty close to hull speed and the light boat doesn''t have the break away speed that typically happens in higher wind ranges. But in windspeeds somewhat below or above this average windspeed the faster boat will often have a major speed advantage.

(For example, there was a Cape Dory 28 in the same class as my Laser 28. The CD was well prepared and seemed to be exceptionally well sailed. The Laser 28 owed the CD 28 about 84 seconds a mile. In moderate winds, I might only beat them by as little as 10 seconds a mile over my rating (i.e. 94 seconds a mile). In lighter air (0-5 knots), I typically beat them by as 20 to 40 minutes a mile over my rating. In heavier conditions, I typically beat them by as much as 1 to 2 minutes a mile over my rating.

In cruising with the CD28, that meant that typically sailed to where ever we were rafting up and they typcially motored a substantial portion of the way and still got in after us.)

My recollections of sailing in Maine was that the conditions were very changeable from extremely light to quite breezy, with little in between, and the currents were quite brisk. A 40 to 60 second a mile difference in speed would often make the difference between being able to sail through one of these high current areas and making it through into areas with slower currents versus not being able to buck the tide, meaning either motoring through, or else hours of sailing barely stemming the flow or not stemming the flow at all, or, where posible, sailing a greater distance to avoid the worst currents.

Beyond all of that, the original post indicted that ''awatson'' had done a good deal of one-design racing and powerboating. That suggests that awatson might be a fellow believer that ''fast is fun''. If ''fast is fun'' is a priority in life, then sailing a boat like the Renegade (phrf 256-254)just would not be as much fun as some of these boats that rate down in the PHRF 171 to 200 range.


awatson 04-18-2002 04:54 AM

Recommendations on a 22 - 26 ft weekender?
Thanks for the good info Jeff, very helpful. When I mentioned that the boat has to "be able to get out of it''s own way", that''s all I meant - take it at face value. I consider a "compromise boat" as one that falls somewhere in the middle of the trade-off between speed and comfort. If speed were that much of a concern, we''d be looking at powerboats!

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