Thoughts for those buying or selling... - Page 3 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 11-21-2007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 2,008
Thanks: 1
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 9
PalmettoSailor will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by bestfriend View Post
snip... Look for foreclosures on boats to rise for those that owe and can't afford to keep it and can only sell at a loss. I am one of the ones in CD's last category. I have a great boat, but its not quite what I want. Its not going to sell, not nearly for what I paid for it, but I can afford it and don't have to sell. So I will sit on it, sail it, and treat her like I am not selling. Its going to be hard to find good boats at a decent price, like the housing market, its drying up and people will sit on the good stuff.

snip
I don't know that that bodes well for those of us that would like to move up. Like CD I've been looking for a few months and I've already seen a several disappointing boats in the $60-80k, 36'-38' range lately. I suspect that is due to marginal owners being forced out as other expenses take precedence over their boat.

If folks feeling financial pressure decide to hold on to their currently well maintained boats to wait for the market to come back, it'll probably just result in more disappointing boats eventually comming on the market when they finally accept that the market has changed. Unfortunately, if they hold on, they may get even less if the neglect takes hold. Taking proper care of something like a boat is usually one of the first expenses to get cut when money gets tight.

I think what CD is pointing out is that current sellers have not yet adjusted their expectations to match the current reality. When folks are paying $60 for a tank of gas and being crushed by rate increases on their adjustable rate loans, the number of people in position to buy a boat goes down and prices have to follow.

Time will tell.
__________________
PalmettoSailor
s/v Palmetto Moon
1991 Catalina 36
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #22  
Old 11-21-2007
bestfriend's Avatar
Hitchin' a ride
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: In my mind, I live in Oslo
Posts: 3,191
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
bestfriend is a jewel in the rough bestfriend is a jewel in the rough bestfriend is a jewel in the rough
No, it doesn't bode well for us. So rather than dump what I have now at a loss, I will upgrade her to a condition that I am satisfied with. I am just going to be happy with what I have for now, and put off the trade-up for 3 or5 more years. I don't expect to make money or anything, even after upgrading, but I will be satisfied getting good use out of her, having her in great condition, and having a more sale-able boat in the future.
__________________
Great men always have too much sail up. - Christopher Buckley


Vaya con Dios
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #23  
Old 11-21-2007
Cruisingdad's Avatar
Best Looking MALE Mod
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Mobile Liveaboards
Posts: 9,894
Thanks: 3
Thanked 97 Times in 52 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by labatt View Post
Thanks CD... I'm glad to be trying to sell a boat right now... NOT!

Here's one other gotcha with regards to loans... With all of the problems in the industry right now due to sub prime lending failures, banks are being very cautious in lending money. 3-4 months ago, I could have walked into any number of banks to get my loan for the boat we're buying. Today, it took me about 12 banks before I could find one willing to write the loan.
Very true. Boat brokers are really hurting right now.
__________________
Sailnet Adminstrator & Moderator
Catalina 400 Technical Editor

2004 Catalina 400, Sea Mist IV (our boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in S FL and Keys primarily)
1987 Tayana Vancouver 42, Credendo Vides, (Mom and Pops boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in Puget Sound)

My Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow My Blog at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow me on Facebook:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #24  
Old 11-21-2007
Cruisingdad's Avatar
Best Looking MALE Mod
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Mobile Liveaboards
Posts: 9,894
Thanks: 3
Thanked 97 Times in 52 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by AjariBonten View Post
Apart from financing issues, what are the insurance implications? Do they prefer to insure for surveyed value or agreed value? Is there a cost difference in insuring it one way or another? Or do insurers do it either one way or the other, without option?

Very good topic, BTW. There are many implications in any market shift; and some of them are not obvious by any stretch.


FRED
To the best of my knowledge, it is surveyed value unless what you paid is less than surveyed. ANyone please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

- CD
__________________
Sailnet Adminstrator & Moderator
Catalina 400 Technical Editor

2004 Catalina 400, Sea Mist IV (our boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in S FL and Keys primarily)
1987 Tayana Vancouver 42, Credendo Vides, (Mom and Pops boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in Puget Sound)

My Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow My Blog at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow me on Facebook:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #25  
Old 11-21-2007
Cruisingdad's Avatar
Best Looking MALE Mod
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Mobile Liveaboards
Posts: 9,894
Thanks: 3
Thanked 97 Times in 52 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailhog View Post
CD,
Thanks for the analysis. One question, though... what's a comp?
A comparable boat... what a comparable boat sold for.

- CD
__________________
Sailnet Adminstrator & Moderator
Catalina 400 Technical Editor

2004 Catalina 400, Sea Mist IV (our boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in S FL and Keys primarily)
1987 Tayana Vancouver 42, Credendo Vides, (Mom and Pops boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in Puget Sound)

My Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow My Blog at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow me on Facebook:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #26  
Old 11-21-2007
Cruisingdad's Avatar
Best Looking MALE Mod
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Mobile Liveaboards
Posts: 9,894
Thanks: 3
Thanked 97 Times in 52 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by labatt View Post
A comp is a price comparison - against other similar boats that have sold in the past few years. There are databases that list all of the reported boats sold and the prices they reportedly sold for so you can figure out 1) How to price your boat, or 2) What to offer on a boat.
Right on!! Sorry, I did not scroll down before answering the questions.

- CD
__________________
Sailnet Adminstrator & Moderator
Catalina 400 Technical Editor

2004 Catalina 400, Sea Mist IV (our boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in S FL and Keys primarily)
1987 Tayana Vancouver 42, Credendo Vides, (Mom and Pops boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in Puget Sound)

My Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow My Blog at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow me on Facebook:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #27  
Old 11-21-2007
Cruisingdad's Avatar
Best Looking MALE Mod
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Mobile Liveaboards
Posts: 9,894
Thanks: 3
Thanked 97 Times in 52 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by xort View Post
CD
Do you happen to know if there are rules about disclosing info from boatsold.com? Whenever I've asked someone with access to that database I seem to get less than what I know is there.

The pricing has become quite distorted. I'm seeing boats that have sat since 2005 listed for 35% above actual selling prices of quality boats. And the boat that has sat for 2+ years is no longer 'quality'. It will be interesting to see if there is a sudden dump of these boats that missed the oportunity to sell when the market was good.
The info in Soldboat.com is only as good as the integrity of the broker that put it there. That being said, it is still probably the best indicator. BUC seems way off. They are only tools - but the only tools that really seem to be available to surveyors. They surveyor will price up/down depending on those numbers.

Yes, what a boat might have sold for a few years ago and what it will sell for today may be very different. What was interesting is that the price difference on the boats we were looking at going back several more years were... 60-70% higher. It is a symptom of the market. Yes, they missed the oppotunity.

However, not to toot the Catalina horn, but I am not convinced it is all boats. For example, the Catalina healer here is doing VERY well. They move boats quickly - new and used. There still seems to be a good market for these boats - at least here. I cannot pretend to know the whole market everywhere and only give my opinions on what I am told and what I see.

- CD
__________________
Sailnet Adminstrator & Moderator
Catalina 400 Technical Editor

2004 Catalina 400, Sea Mist IV (our boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in S FL and Keys primarily)
1987 Tayana Vancouver 42, Credendo Vides, (Mom and Pops boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in Puget Sound)

My Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow My Blog at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow me on Facebook:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #28  
Old 11-21-2007
Cruisingdad's Avatar
Best Looking MALE Mod
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Mobile Liveaboards
Posts: 9,894
Thanks: 3
Thanked 97 Times in 52 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion35 View Post
Thanks this is a good topic, I've been looking and hadn't considered the ramaifications this could have on my getting the loan. BUC seems in line with the PSC 34s I've looked at, once you consider the asking price and offer price difference, but I haven't subscribed to BUC and I'm only looking at the first freebie listing they give you.

Considering this thread do you recomend someone in the market subscribes to BUC? Is BUC the system the banks will use to get their comps?
Most banks that do REAL boat loans go off of the surveyed amount. I don't see any point subscribing to Buc or any of them - even if you could. Your broker will have that info. If not, your surveyor will. Any good surveyor/broker will give you all of that info (assuming you are going to use them and look at their boat).

However, if you go through a credit union or use a non-traditional large boat loan (which I would not suggest), many use NADA.

- CD
__________________
Sailnet Adminstrator & Moderator
Catalina 400 Technical Editor

2004 Catalina 400, Sea Mist IV (our boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in S FL and Keys primarily)
1987 Tayana Vancouver 42, Credendo Vides, (Mom and Pops boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in Puget Sound)

My Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow My Blog at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow me on Facebook:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #29  
Old 11-22-2007
uspirate's Avatar
Trim for Sail
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: 36 07 27.69 N 115 10 14.2 W
Posts: 2,148
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 16
uspirate has a spectacular aura about uspirate has a spectacular aura about uspirate has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by bestfriend View Post
No, it doesn't bode well for us. So rather than dump what I have now at a loss, I will upgrade her to a condition that I am satisfied with. I am just going to be happy with what I have for now, and put off the trade-up for 3 or5 more years. I don't expect to make money or anything, even after upgrading, but I will be satisfied getting good use out of her, having her in great condition, and having a more sale-able boat in the future.
I'm in the same boat, so to speak. we were gonna "off" ours and upgrade in the spring. but now i think i'll just hold off and enjoy her even though Key Bank offered us a sweet deal on a loan. as we all know, the best deals always arrive at the worst possible time.
__________________
To get the most from Sailnet, read the link in
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
signature

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Sin City, Liquor all day, Poker all night...Channel Islands & Diego, So Cal
BJ & Nimfa
S/V Flocerfida


If You dont Stand Behind our troops...Feel Free To STAND IN FRONT OF THEM
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #30  
Old 11-22-2007
Here .. Pull this
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,031
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
Sailormann will become famous soon enough
If you are thinking of buying a boat - hold off, because the prices are going to be much, much lower in the fairly near future. Hate to be a harbinger of doom and gloom, but it's going to be another three months before it becomes apparent how deflated the US economy has gotten, and once business moves into survival mode, there will be some incredible deals to be had.

Thats going to work on both the buy and sell sides so, you'll still be able to upgrade if you like, you'll be selling cheaper and buying cheaper, but the transaction will still work.

If you have a substantial loan on a boat right now ... well ... hmmm ... get rid of the loan somehow. A lot of financial institutions are going to be calling in a lot of loans that they feel (rightly or wrongly) are not 100% gold-plated, tangible asset-backed, sure things. There will be a certain amount of overreaction on their parts, so be prepared.

Insurance will be the major boondoggle. They are going to get hit as well, so it's going to be hard to get them to write an agreed-value policy that inflates as the economy clears up and boats regain their value. In the case of the older boats, that may never happen regardless of how great their condition is. So - don't borrow money to buy an old boat.

Probably best to stick with one of the more "nautically-minded" insurance companies out there. They'll have at least a superficial understanding of what they are insuring, and it's market value.

The lucky people, as always, will be those who have cash in times of difficulty. There are certainly going to be some good prices next summer

Last edited by Sailormann; 11-22-2007 at 12:17 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Joys and Pitfalls of Buying a New Boat - Part 1 Lin & Larry Pardey Buying a Boat Articles 24 2 Weeks Ago 11:40 PM
Buying a boat - what about selling a boat mikehoyt Boat Review and Purchase Forum 1 09-12-2007 11:42 PM
Selling a Boat Jon Shattuck Buying a Boat Articles 0 01-14-2002 07:00 PM
Best boat for buying and selling in the Med? dwooody Boat Review and Purchase Forum 0 03-12-2001 08:52 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:12 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012