Ferro-cement. yay or Nay? - Page 2 - SailNet Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #11 of 52 Old 12-06-2007
Best Looking MALE Mod
 
Cruisingdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Washington State
Posts: 9,917
Thanks: 3
Thanked 124 Times in 57 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
BS,

First, I will not pretend to be a FC expert. With that on the table:

I would stick with a more traditional material... even considering wood over cement. I agree with the bad reputations they have received. I have heard concerns about getting a surveyor that knows how to survey them. I have heard (as was mentioned before) concerns about insurance. I have heard that some are truly junk.

I HAVE ALSO HEARD... that there are some great deals to be had on them and a good one is a really good one. But with no survey (which seems unlikely anyways) I think your money would be better invested in fiberglass. You will put a lot of capital and time into a boat. Best to get one you can get rid of should you wish.

Just my opinions... and a LOT of hear-say I have collected on them over the years.

- CD

Sailnet Moderator



1987 Tayana Vancouver 42, Credendo Vides, (Mom and Pops boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in Puget Sound)

My Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow My Blog at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow me on Facebook:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Cruisingdad is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 52 Old 12-06-2007
Senior Moment
 
SailorMitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: MD
Posts: 1,931
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Nay. Sometimes even a free boat costs too much. And what's with that line "needs someone to finish." Just how much is not done? Plus, some of the interior work looks like crap to me. Save your money on this one and keep lookoking. It's a real soft market out there.

SailorMitch
Sailing winged keels since 1989.
1.20.09 Bush's last day the end of an error !! Hopefully we still have a constitution and economy left by then.


"Compassion and tolerance are not a sign of weakness, but a sign of strength." The Dalai Lama


good planets are hard to find-- a song by steve forbert


I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know no way of judging the future but by the past.-- Patrick Henry.
SailorMitch is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #13 of 52 Old 12-06-2007 Thread Starter
"On a Tartan 30"
 
BlowinSouth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: At Anchor in Niantic, CT.
Posts: 127
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Send a message via Yahoo to BlowinSouth
OK... no one has said anything that I haven't already thought of myself. Yes the 'no sea trial, no survey' thing was a huge red flag to me too but when you offer a 32' bluewater boat for 9k I kind of understand why they say that. To keep the tire kickers off the dock.

My question and concern was not as much about this boat specifically but about Ferrocement construction in general.

What is ferro cement anyway? Does it crack and/or crumble on impact with a submerged object? Or running aground?

And yes I know you have to give them away... this guy is giving his away. 9k for a 32' boat? And I could probably steal it for 7k Maybe (or there abouts). Then I sail it for a few years and sell it for a steal too. I'm not trying to flip it for a buck just have a decent boat to take me around the oceans for a couple years.

Still... yay or nay?
BlowinSouth is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #14 of 52 Old 12-06-2007 Thread Starter
"On a Tartan 30"
 
BlowinSouth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: At Anchor in Niantic, CT.
Posts: 127
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Send a message via Yahoo to BlowinSouth
Well said CD, I'll probably steer clear of this one... but it is very tempting!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
BS,

First, I will not pretend to be a FC expert. With that on the table:

I would stick with a more traditional material... even considering wood over cement. I agree with the bad reputations they have received. I have heard concerns about getting a surveyor that knows how to survey them. I have heard (as was mentioned before) concerns about insurance. I have heard that some are truly junk.

I HAVE ALSO HEARD... that there are some great deals to be had on them and a good one is a really good one. But with no survey (which seems unlikely anyways) I think your money would be better invested in fiberglass. You will put a lot of capital and time into a boat. Best to get one you can get rid of should you wish.

Just my opinions... and a LOT of hear-say I have collected on them over the years.

- CD
BlowinSouth is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #15 of 52 Old 12-06-2007
Senior Member
 
Sasha_V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 459
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
Quote:
Full keel skag hung rudder
Bit of a spelling error. In Australian parlance a Skag is pretty much what a Ho is in the US... I suppose it seems reasonable that one could hold her breath long enough to hang on to the rudder for you as you sail.




Sorry.


I would stay away from ferro boats in 99.9% of cases. There are a very VERY few european boat builders that seriously explored and refined the use of ferro cement for yachts. Their products are not shoddy and not cheap either. For a boat that tells you it was built in some mexican yard with variable humidities and doubtful quality control....No thanks. Not even if it were given to me for free.

Sasha

Last edited by Sasha_V; 12-06-2007 at 10:54 PM.
Sasha_V is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #16 of 52 Old 12-06-2007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 103
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Make a low ball offer

Try a low ball offer. Pick a price you wouldn't care if it were junk and offer that. He can't be getting too many offers, and it is a rather pretty boat in the pictures. Normally I would say stay away from ferro-cement, but if you can get it at the right price, who knows?
wescarroll is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #17 of 52 Old 12-06-2007
Senior Member
 
paulk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: CT/ Long Island Sound
Posts: 2,609
Thanks: 4
Thanked 26 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 16
 
It might be suitable for blue water if that's the color of the pool you're going to park it in. $9.000 for what could be a three-room apartment isn't a bad deal, but you'd want to make sure it was well insulated to keep the A/C costs down, and you'd want to check the zoning laws about ancillary apartments before you hired a crane to move it. Demolition on the thing is probably a hefty sum (dumps charge by the ton...) and the work to take it apart would add to that, so maybe a few thou just to dump it. They don't want to waste time on it, so they make a take it of leave it deal. This is not your dream boat.
paulk is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #18 of 52 Old 12-06-2007
Here .. Pull this
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,031
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
If you find a well-made Ferro-cement boat, then you have found a very good vessel. They are out there and they are very strong, durable craft. As they age they get stronger, not weaker.

A while ago - in the 70's - there was a big ferro-cement craze, as people found out that it was possible to build a hull for very few dollars. An awful lot very bad boats were started, some were finished, and some of those were launched and are still sailing. They are basically mortar over a steel mesh frame. In a lot of cases the inner steel has deteriorated. In other cases the plastering compound was not mixed properly and bonds are weak. Some other boats wre not cured at the correct temperature, or for long enough beore being painted and sealed.

If you are seriously considering a Ferro boat, then you need to do some exploring and research. This is a good starting point :
http://www.ferrocement.org/
Sailormann is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #19 of 52 Old 12-06-2007
Telstar 28
 
sailingdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 14
         
Umm... the "no survey/no sea trial" part of the ad is a huge warning flag. Ferrocement boats, properly constructed, can be very good boats. Unfortunately, many ferrocement boats weren't made in anything close to the proper way, and the insurance industry and financing industry have strong reservations about giving insurance coverage or financing on them for those reasons.

Ferrocement was a fairly low-cost way to make a very sturdy boat. Many used pipe instead of solid rod for parts of the framing, and that is a serious problem, since the pipe would allow condensation to collect inside it, and then corrode from the inside out... weakening the frame and construction of the ferrocement boat from deep inside, where it would be very difficult to detect.

The idea of ferrocement construction was to bind many (eight or more usually) layers of steel mesh together very tightly. Then cement was forced into the mesh and over the mesh to form the hull. If the mesh was not bound tightly enough together or the cement not packed in properly, you would get either areas of fairly thick cement layup or voids in the cement layup—either of which would seriously weaken it. In theory, the construction was much like that of fiberglass boats... you had the steel mesh acting as the fibers, and the cement acting as the resin, and like a fiberglass boat, the strongest layups had the highest concentration of mesh and relatively low concentrations of "resin".

Another area where the construction techniques often fell short was in the "curing" phase of the ferrocement boat. The hull, once plastered with cement, needed to be kept wet, to allow the cement to harden with maximum strength. If they failed to do this... it would visually appear the same, but the strength of the hull would be vastly lower that it could have been. On one boat I know of the hull had a few spots that were apparently "missed" it the wetting out process and that is where large cracks developed in the boat.

I've seen some really beautifully constructed ferrocement boats... which were hard to tell as ferrocement boats. These are pretty far and few between. One of the sailing magazines had a good article recently on ferro-cement construction which you might want to read. If I can find the article, I'll post the name and date of the magazine.

Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.

Last edited by sailingdog; 12-06-2007 at 11:37 PM.
sailingdog is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #20 of 52 Old 12-07-2007
tdw
Super Fuzzy Moderator
 
tdw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 16,612
Thanks: 15
Thanked 106 Times in 99 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
There have been some quite wonderful ferro boats. One even pulled off line honours in the Sydney - Hobart some years back. If professionally built in a yard that knows what they are doing, OK, but semi professional or home built ? Not in a million years. The inherent problem with ferro is that the strength is in the steel not the ferro and the ferro is easily pierced. It's already been noted that unless fully professionally built they are impossible to insure but that is surely a major negative also.

As for no survey, you have got to be kidding. It's amazing what you can hide with a nice new coat of paint, at least until it starts coming off, in sheets. I can understand at that price the owner not wanting to naff around with test sails but no survey ? No way. Ten grand is still ten grand. Can you afford to piss that up aganst the wall ? Worth thousands more ? Only if someone else thinks so.

Ye olde Wombate just keeps remembering "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is".

Oh and by the way, Tahiti's sail like your average footpath so it's probably apt that the thing is concrete. That's more the reason they don't want you to have a test sail plus of course you'd find out just how slowly a 12hp motor will propel a great big lump of rock. Get yourself a barge pole and keep your distance.

Oh yes, and as for "sail it for a few years" that's after spending a few years rebuilding the interior. Of course a queen size bed is a most important attribute, not to mention the flat screen TV, front opening fridge and the fake leopard skin bed covers. Sorry but the only thing a Tahiti is good for is crossing oceans but this one does not have the feel of an ocean goer. More a somewhat squalid houseboat than anything else.

Andrew B

“Life is a trick, and you get one chance to learn it.”
― Terry Pratchett, Nation

Malo 39 Classic
tdw is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ferro cement boat annemminix Boat Review and Purchase Forum 8 12-02-2011 11:25 AM
Ferro cement dshearn Boat Review and Purchase Forum 15 02-28-2008 08:02 PM
Buying a Ferro Cement Boat rainydays137 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 10 08-22-2007 10:54 AM
ferro cement boat annemminix Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 3 09-15-2003 11:27 PM
need help on ferro cement boat. pierot69 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 0 01-27-2001 10:48 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome