a good learner / liveaboard

[fenti]

Hey all,

I'm a new sailor looking for a cruiser that's comfortable enough for one to live aboard, and a good boat to learn to sail with. I've sailed dinghys and with friends, but nothing serious as of yet. I'm in a position to be able to move aboard soon and I'm looking for something that would handle well, and would grow with me rather than be a clunker. I understand that I would have to sacrifice space for performance. I've read up a bit about some different models and their suitability but I'm largely ignorant about boats and would like some input from you guys.

Here's what I have:
25k to buy
Western Canadian oceans
Strong desire to learn to sail well

Here's what I'm looking for:
Around 30ft
Well handling, yet forgiving
Decent galley

What I've found and like in my range so far:
1970 Ericson 30
1980 S2 30
1978 Tartan 30

I've read about importing a boat from the U.S. into Canada and it doesn't seem like too much of a hassle. What I am ignorant about are transportation costs. (ie. moving a boat from California) and if the cost of moving a boat would offset what seems to be a much higher priced boat market in Canada.

Any help / info / suggestions / criticism here would be great.

Thanks,
Jim

[dhornsey]

Hi Fenti,

I can't speak to the types of boats you're interested in, but I have recently imported a boat from San Diego to Vancouver and can give you some idea of the costs to have a boat trucked up. There are a few you might not have considered.

- Flights & Hotels to check it out - $1000
- Haul-out and Survey in SD boatyard - $750 (seemed a little high)
- Haul out, de-rig, yard costs, lift onto truck in SD - $600
- Trucking from SD to Vancouver - $4800 USD (used Dudley trucking and was very happy)
- GST and PST to Canadian customs - Roughly 13% (you would not have to pay this buying a boat locally)
- Customs Broker to deal with importation - $200
- Lift, Yard fees & Re-rigging here in Vancouver - $2000 (we got ripped off here)

This was for a 31 foot boat. Including all of that, for us it still worked out to be a great deal. Hope this helps.

[sailboy21]

How ambitious are you about cruising? Some of the waters in your neck of the woods can be challenging. You say you have 25k. What this really means is you should be looking at boats 15k-20k. No joke, with an older boat if you ONLY spend 5k the first year you are lucky. Your first keel boat will end up owning you.. especially with older boats. Speaking of which, if you are not currently reading Good Old Boat, Lat38, 48 North, Cruising world, latts & atts etc RELIGIOUSLY you really are not in the right mindset to start boat ownership. Trust me

[fenti]

Sailboy, thanks for the insight. Not sure how my first post came across.. I was really just giving as much info about my situation as possible because I read about members here requesting this info from other posters. But I don't underestimate the work and the time involved for what I'd like to do. I do read some of the mags you listed, but not religiously.. yet. But this doesn't mean I'm not sincere about owning a boat, living on it, and learning how to sail. I'm really just starting out here. I do have up to 25k just for a boat. I have allowed more for the many expenses I will no doubt incur with boat ownership. If you have more feedback about boats I should be looking at more closely, I would appreciate.

Thanks for the info Dhornsey. I've gotten some quotes back, and the trucking part is around the same rate.. but those haul out costs seem really expensive from what I've been quoted from marinas. Still, the couple boats I've been looking at are still cheaper importing them from the U.S.

[Johnrb]

" - GST and PST to Canadian customs - Roughly 13% (you would not have to pay this buying a boat locally)"

It depends. Buying a boat through a broker, I believe you will get hit with both GST and applicable PST (depending upon province). Buying a used boat direct (no broker) will avoid the GST but I believe PST is still payable. The provincial government will likely get you when you license your boat. There may have been a comment in Sailnet on a similar thread (by Faster perhaps) where PST may have been avoided by registering your boat but I'm not certain on that.

[sailboy21]

Tell us more about your intended uses. That has a lot to do with what boat you end up with. S2 is a good make. Made in Holland Michigan, popular for racing and cruising. All around good boat. Tartan 30 with engine amidships? Another good choice for cruising. 1970 is getting quite old. Cars that old can get an Antique vehicle plate. Ericson (Bruce King designed?) also a reputable builder. I would suspect any of those listed wold end up suiting you fine. I have lived aboard a 25' O'day alone and a 30' Rawson with my wife. Can be done, even in winter. Just be ready for all sorts of hassles from the marina, city, and even other boaters. Governments don't like live aboard because they can't tax it as much. Marinas don't like live aboard because they claim extra hassle. Environazis don't like liveaboard because they pollute more (they say). Other boaters don't like live aboard because they themselves might be elitists. etc etc... Of course that is a total generalization, but also quite a bit of reality I'm afraid. Also, Some marinas have a MINIMUM LENGTH for liveaboard. Usually 30-35feet. However, there is another thing called "sneakaboard" you can also do

[sailingdog]

Alberg 30 is always a good choice... fairly common and very solid... but getting a bit long in tooth.