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post #1 of 38 Old 12-21-2007 Thread Starter
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question on survey/offer

OK offer was made and accepted contingent on survey and sea trial. Survey was done and Radar, Autopilot and Air conditioning were found to be not working. Radar is 20 years old and cant be repaired. Auto pilot has spare electronics so that may not be an issued. Air conditioning unit is old and should be repaired/replaced. We feel if it was advertised as being on the boat that it should pass survey, if not current owner should make it right. broker says CO is willing to make allowances for bad systems. How much allowance should we ask for? wife wants it replaced before purchase. Is this hard nosed?
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post #2 of 38 Old 12-21-2007
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I would NOT ask for it to be replaced before purchase. simply put, the owner will likely get the cheapest monkeys he can to bolt on the least costly system with no thought to longevity or quality.

What you should ask for is the price reduction by the full costs of replacing the systems (parts and labour)

What you should expect and settle for is a pro-rated value negotiation for what percentage of that you will get.

It's all a process...Except for the bit about getting the grumpy owner to upgrade the boat before selling it to you...That's just daft, unless you know him, or at least his reputation as a total perfectionist no matter what...and honourable beyond the dreams of mere mortals... and...

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post #3 of 38 Old 12-21-2007
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The seller will not want the hassle or cost of repairing or adding new kit, he's more likely to go for lowering the price.

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post #4 of 38 Old 12-21-2007
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I'll third that you low-ball the owner. You don't want him to get the cheapest replacement available and do a half a** install job. Aside from that you might come off as hard nosed and might lose the sale if you like the boat aside from the items on the survey. Why would the owner put up with the hassle of meeting your requirements if there is another potential buyer who doesn't have demands on bad equipment?
You can price out the total cost of replacing the deficient items and use that as a guage on how much to low-ball the owner.

If you buy the boat and have the items fixed yourself, you can do the work yourself (or have the work done for you) to your standards. You can get good equipment and have the install done right the first time.

Good luck

Dictated, but not read.
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post #5 of 38 Old 12-21-2007
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As a seller (closed just yesterday) I was almost to the point of just keeping the boat, as the buyer kept coming back time and again for some other issue that was disclosed upfront, and not even found in the survey. i.e. Although the Genny worked fine, he did not like the idea of holding the glow plug and start buttins at the same time - wanted a new start panel to his liking. His panel $850 plus installation, my panel - $125 installed..5 or 6 more things later, I told him that was it. I had paid for all I was going to pay for.

Often the boat is priced to take in to account the electronics age, equipment and such. It is the buyer's responsibility to see if that is acceptable.

All in all he will get a great boat and I got a good price for the boat. It worked in the long run, but you will need to be careful about "demands" sometimes the seller will just stop.

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post #6 of 38 Old 12-21-2007
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As for antiquated or malfunctioning electronics, the most you can ask for is a pro-rated credit. If you put a bid on a boat with a 20 year old radar, and the radar turns out to be inoperable, you cannot reasonably demand the replacement cost of a brand-new, state-of-the-art radar unit. You can ask for a credit for the value of the old unit that you thought you were getting with the boat, but that value is probably close to zilch.
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post #7 of 38 Old 12-21-2007
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I also agree with JRP and TBs comments. The boat was priced with the recognition the systems were old. Your offer should have reflected that. It is reasonable to expect they would work but not reasonable to expect an upgrade to new systems. An allowance for the cost of repair is the best you can hope for.
TB - are you contemplating selling that beauty next year?
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post #8 of 38 Old 12-21-2007
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Sorry - I deleted my post just before yours, without knowing your post was to follow, simply because I did not want to mislead anyone with a public announcement that I was listing my boat.

I basically agreed with JRP's assessment since I "might" have a similar circumstance "if" I listed my 20 year boat next year with a functioning 20 year old radar. It does still work very well. However, I would not make much of a concession to an offer if the radar proved to not function during survey. Simply, because it is essentially worthless as a stand-alone item in a marine consignment store.

But to answer your question, yes, I am in a contemplation mode.

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post #9 of 38 Old 12-21-2007
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What Sasha Said .........................

I got an Old Fat Boat
She's Slow But Handsome
Hard In The Chine, but Soft In The Transom
I Love Her Well, And She Must Love Me
But I think It's Only For My Money
..... Gordon Bok
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post #10 of 38 Old 12-21-2007
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If the boat was advertised with those features, the best you're going to get is a slight price offset to compensate for them not working. Expecting them to be replaced with new is ridiculous and most likely going to get the very cheapest models as replacements as Sapperwhite pointed out... It would make far more sense to be a bit more flexible and then do the new installations you can invest in something that will work properly and last longer.

Also, if the boat is in good shape otherwise, the owner might tell you to take a hike... boats in good shape will often have several people interested in them.

BTW, IMHO, if you didn't adjust your offer, based on your survey results, and the survey found that all that equipment was non-functional... that's your own fault... you had a chance to address those issues when you had the survey done. Expecting the owner to adjust the price to accommodate the cost of buying and installing all new replacement gear is a pipe dream, and completely unreasonable.

He wouldn't get that kind of return on the gear if he bought it and installed it just before he sold the boat... so he's very unlikely to discount the boat the full amount. I think you'll be lucky if he meets you a third or half of the way for the cost of the replacement gear, not including installation costs.

A good way to look at this is the price difference between two otherwise identical boats... the price difference for the one with all new electronics will generally be far less than the cost of all the electronics put together... That's why it doesn't make sense to buy fixer-uppers unless you're getting a really good deal... since it generally costs more to fix, repair, upgrade the boat than it would to buy the same boat in fixed, upgraded and repaired condition.


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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

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Last edited by sailingdog; 12-21-2007 at 09:38 AM.
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