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  #11  
Old 04-29-2002
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Fat Ass Sterns of New Boats

For the moment, yes I''m still at Beach Marine. Next week it''s north again to the St. Simons area where I''ll call home for the next two months, at least. Perhaps longer. We''ll see.

We did have a great time in the St. Augustine area, anchored out except one night at the city dock. The holding ground north of the bridge of lions was much better than I thought (than I had heard) it would be. I was concerned when I dropped hook, there were 50 boats anchored south of the bridge and 5 north. We averaged 2 knot currents, but didn''t drag an inch.

Don
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  #12  
Old 04-29-2002
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Fat Ass Sterns of New Boats

My comments originated by observing the vessels in the marina. It was Jeff who put his mouth (fingers) in gear without engaging his brain by making the leap from ergonomics on a cruising boat to the professional racing boats. I don’t know if he’s seen any of these racing sleds so I’ll assume that his comment was from an uninformed perspective. I’m also assuming (careful using this word to often) that most of you believe that the design of the wide sterns on production boats are for the enhancement of speed. Isn’t that what they said of the wing keels once they stared showing up on all of the production boats shortly after a winged keel boat won the Americas Cup? It is my opinion that the wide sterns found on the boats built today are there for only one reason, that is to sell the boats with huge aft cabins because this is what people want. Did I type that? I suspect that the reason the boats are designed with the FA sterns are for living quarters rather than hydrodynamic performance of the vessel but, I have no proof. No need to get personal with your “snob” comments, I’m not trashing the people that buy these boats only the production boats themselves! I have an average boat but I live in a mobile home, or as they say a “manufactured home”. No comments about “tornado magnets” or you’ll hurt my feelings.
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Old 04-29-2002
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Fat Ass Sterns of New Boats

Denr you said "Jeff who put his mouth(fingers) in gear without engaging his brain by making the leap from ergonomics on a cruising boat to the professional racing boats"

What !?
Hmmm Denr, I think he WAS talking about sailing characteristics of cruising boats, not ergonomics. Those were YOUR words and comments not his. ''Methinks'' he knows alot more about the hydrodynamics of boats than you do. He came up with facts and knowledge on the subject, all you came up with is a "conspiracy speculation"

" It is my opinion that the wide sterns found on the boats built today are there for only one reason"

Thats just it your ''opinion''. Sorry, but like they say about opinions. Everyone has one. But yours has NO basis in fact. The relatively straight hull form from the maximum beam at midpoint to the stern of most boats creates a better flow of the stern wave which translates to speed. I will research the book that I have read that has empirical data on different boats with different types sterns and how a pinched off sterns are a detriment to speed.

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Fat Ass Sterns of New Boats

I was wondering of off shore cruising in a following sea with the wide flat transom...I was under the impression that a round stern, or double-ender type made for a safer ride. Also in regards to two wheels in the cockpit, I chartered a 51'' Beneteau with such, the engine controls were only on the starboard wheel, it was next to impossible to see forward to try to grab a mooring, and couldn''t change over to the other wheel because of no controls.
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  #15  
Old 04-29-2002
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Fat Ass Sterns of New Boats

According to Robert Perry, probably the most prolific designer of ''double enders'' there nothing magical about a double ender; certainly nothing about a "moses effect" in parting the oncoming seas!. All double enders are not the same, with the tumblehome canoe body (typical Perry design) better at heeling without change in adverse helm unlike the ColinArcher/Westsail genre. If you look at the typical Perry or Creighlock designed boats you will find that they are quite fat in the fanny.

The disadvantage with a wide assed transom is that the heeled waterline can get extremely asymmetrical; hence, developing possible radical changes in helm vs. angle of heel .....helm balance.

Originally the double ender was an easy method of constructing wooden lapstrake boats - no transom needed! Otherwise a ''double ender'' is simply an aesthetic "preference" - just looks right to some; unless you plan on doing a long passage by sailing backwards.
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Old 04-29-2002
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Fat Ass Sterns of New Boats

Sorry to run two quotes from the same ''source'', but the first posting asked...

"Do the sailors buying these boats even care about sailing them or are these boats bought to be used as marina queens meant to live in and entertain on the weekends? "

after a rebuttle, the second posting said...

"I’m not trashing the people that buy these boats only the production boats themselves!"

Gee, don''t know how I could have mistaken that. For a second there I thought you were refering to the buyers. Oh wait. You were.

And so the reply was (and is): YES, WE CARE ABOUT SAILING THEM, THEY''RE GREAT AND WE LOVE THE PUPPIES.

Glad to straighten that out. Nothing personal at all.

ps. a wise man once said EVERYTHING is personal.

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Fat Ass Sterns of New Boats

Isn''t boating a trade-off? you get something... you give something.
You have a FA transom...you get a large aft cabin. You gain speed(a tiny bit)... you get a narrow vee birth..you loose forward buoyancy... you get a wetter ride, you also loose the safety of being able to safely singlehand or shorthand in rough weather for extended periods without becoming fatigued early? Isn''t fatigue the number one cause of death at sea?
Isn''t it characteristic of a fine entry to plow into seas and bury the bow provoking an end over end roll?
Denr made a statement that is bias.It''s not the first time that has happened on this MB. I''ve come to the realization that us Trads are the minority.
How many of the performance sailers walk down the dock... look at the trads.and say ''she''s a pig'' ,''she couldn''t get out of her own way'' etc, etc. I''ve heard this many times.Us Trad. sailers hear this alot and were probably just venting.
Myself?... I don''t dislike any boat. Power included. Lets just remember...boating is a trade-off.
For everything you get... you give something. Nobody should act like their boat is better than anybody elses. Right?

Dennis
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Old 04-29-2002
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Fat Ass Sterns of New Boats

"Isn''t fatigue the number one cause of death at sea?"

I don''t think so. Very few die at sea as compared to coastal sailing. (Within United States jurisdiction Coast Guard Studies show #1 cause is alchohol related. ) So in effect Coastal sailing is more dangerous. Its does have a lot more hazards to navigation than the open ocean.

"Isn''t it characteristic of a fine entry to plow into seas and bury the bow provoking an end over end roll?"

Geez....I don''t think so, but maybe you are right, I think I better tell Steve Dashew he''s doing something wrong in his offshore designs. How he ever got that many miles in his boats is beyond me.. BTW when was the last time you heard of a decent sized sailboat doing an "end over end" roll. That wasn''t even the issues or problems with the Sydney Hobart boats.

You guys are being defensive alright ! "us Trads are the minority. ......sailers walk down the dock... look at the trads.and say ''she''s a pig'' .....,''she couldn''t get out of her own way'' etc, etc".

Excuse me !? Did anyone say that on this list? Geez....I don''t recall that! In fact I like traditional boats, I really do. You talk about fatigue and blah, blah, blah. But the reality is 95% of us sailboaters are Coastal cruising and weekend sailing with a week or two trips when we can during the summer. When I decide to ''Sail Around The World'' I will buy a Gozzard or some other heavy D/L boat. But until then I will continue using my *awesome* sailing Coastal cruising boat (that I can singlehand in a storm for hours on end.....never tried it for days on end )

Both you guys.....send us all a post card from Cape Horn. That seems like the only kind of sailing you do.
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  #19  
Old 04-29-2002
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Fat Ass Sterns of New Boats

I always thought FO/FO was the leading cause of boating death (fell overboard, fly open). I guess that can fall under the alcohol related category.

Sure, traditional boats are great. I used to own one. Looked wonderful out on the water, sailed great too. But that was then and this is now. Bottom line is I''m enjoying my time on the water and on the hook now a great deal more than I did before.

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Fat Ass Sterns of New Boats

NJciscokid,
Man!...wow! Jeez!...Take a chill pill will ya... wow! Talk about defensive! Talk about ''conspiracy speculation''.
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