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  #1  
Old 12-29-2007
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Looking for a bit of advice

Hi,

Well, I've finally started seriously looking for my first sailboat I've found a couple not too far from me that I'd like to hear other's opinions about.

I guess I should give a bit of background information first though eh?

I live in Montreal, Quebec. I'm only 24 years old, so my budget is rather small. Then again my expectations aren't all that high either. While I don't have tons of sailing experience, I have sailed dingys quite a bit. I also am a REALLY fast learner and have read just about everything I can get my hands on online and offline, so like to think I'm not going into this blind. My cruising grounds if I stay local is a rather shallow lake (Lac St.Louis right up beside Montreal), or if I go a bit further which I am seriously thinking then Lake Champlain.

I'd like a boat that I could spend a lot of time on, so accommodations are a bit of a priority (decent head/shower) etc. I'm not looking for a floating condo by any means, and am single ( ) so don't need anything huge, but if I'm going to spend a lot of time on the boat I might as well be at least a little comfortable no?

I'm not looking for something seaworthy enough to cross oceans in (yet ) but if one day I wanted to hop over to the Bahamas etc, it would be nice to know that I could without having to get another boat. (with the right weather window, and a lot more experience then I have now of course )

So without further ado, here are the boats I'm looking at, and my thoughts. (also all 4 boats are with the same broker by coincidence )

I can't post links directly so I had to mangle them a bit.



--------------------------------------
1984 Catalina 27 - US$12,000.00
www dot boats dot com/listing/gallery.jsp?entityid=17996601

Pro's
- Brand name so should be easier to resell when the day comes and be easier to get parts for if needed
- Cheapest asking price of the 4 I'm looking at
- newish sails (Ad says 05/06)

Con's
- Smallest of the 4 I'm looking at
- Would really prefer an inboard motor

------------------------------------

1974 Grampian 30 - US$15,000.00
www dot boats dot com/listing/gallery.jsp?entityid=16670951

This boat is pretty much middle ground for me.

Pro's
-Inboard motor
-longer then the 27

Con's
-The motor is gas, I'd prefer diesel.
------------------------------------

1978 Beneteau First R/C 30 - US$17,500.00
www dot boats dot com/listing/boat_details.jsp?entityid=16998201

Pro's
-Looks really sharp, I like it's looks
-Production boat
-Inboard Diesel

Con's
-It's draft probably rules it out for my local lake.
-Most expensive of the ones I'm looking at.
------------------------------------------

1991 Leeboard Gaff Ketch Custom built - US$14,900.00
www dot boats dot com/listing/boat_details.jsp?entityid=14417581

This last one has me really curious. I LOVE the looks of ketches/yawls, and the gaff rig looks nice at least. However I know next to nothing about both the Gaff rig and leeboards. Also the hull is listed as wood, however in the listing it says "strip planked western cedar, custom built and fiberglass epoxy clad." Does this mean it takes less maintainance then a fully wooden boat? I'm afraid that I'm not knowledgeable in construction techniques.

Pro's
- Super small draft with the board up (18 inches) and he says it's even beachable
-I love the "look" of the rig. Don't have any information on how it sails though
-listing says it has positive flotation.
-Comes with a trailer (not that I have anything that could pull it, though a couple of my friends do)
-inboard diesel

Con's
- I don't know anything about taking care of a wooden hull
- Not too sure about the leeboards. (I'm guessing that's what the thing hanging off the side of the hull is called)
- Built in 91, refits in 95 and 01, needs another refit?
- not the nicest looking hull in the world (to me anyways)

-----------------------------------


So given those 4 boats, does anyone have any advice/opinions?

Thanks!!!
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  #2  
Old 12-29-2007
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For a beginner you've done a nice analysis for yourself already. Welcome!

Of the 4 I'd say the Grampian is best suited for your stated objectives. You'll probably find the Beneteau (which looks in great shape in the pictures, btw) cramped in comparison.

The gaff rigged boat is a character boat, would probably be a bit frustrating to sail, and resale would be tough too... and your statement:

Quote:
- not the nicest looking hull in the world (to me anyways)
should be a red flag. As others have said here, "don't buy a boat you don't love"

In your part of the world the Grampian is a known quantity, as is the Catalina. The Beneteau is an unusual model, and appearing typically '70s IOR shaped may have some bad habits.

If you don't absolutely love the look of the character boat, it's probably not for you.

Good luck!!
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Old 12-29-2007
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I'm liking the Catalina, i wouldnt harp on the outboard very much. reliable and inexpensive to replace ($1.5k)as compared to other options. it should get you island hopping in the bahamas with ease. i would stay away from the ketch at this point of your experience. not saying youre not capable but make it easy on yourself and your wallet. I like the Bene as well but am not familiar with that model. good luck!
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Old 12-29-2007
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Red face I not like choosing for people

You may get a lot of opinions, but, you are down to only 4.

Faster says it well about the Lee Board. If, you not like how it look, then X that on off and you down to 3.

When I first started looking, I loved every boat I found within my price range. Then I settled down and decided what I really wanted to narrow my search.

Also, for Trivia I have considered that same Lee Board boat as I like how it look and the nostalgia of Gaff Rigged and Lee Boards is cool. But, it really not a price I would pay for past History and as Faster mentioned it my not resale quick. This boat been for sale for a long time, but, so have others I have seen. I decided I will build this to have the experience of a Gaff Rigged, Lee Board boat;
http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/Pocahontas.html

I do have a Grampian in my boats to watch and I do not have a Catalina. I not say they not a good boat, just I not found one that catch my eye for the price.


I almost bought a Beneteau 235 but I had to back away as this was way to small for what I want.

I believe a Sailboat is for sailing not motoring. So, I can deal with an outboard and as mentioned it cheap to replace and maintain (in my opinion).

I not read the specific details of the boats, as the links you give just show the pictures. Also, I really not want to make a choice or add more for you to look at, but, I also am one for options.

The Grampian I look at is here;
http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/7396

I not see what engine it have, but, it mention an engine. Plus it may not have all the little goodies the one your looking at.
I probably not help much, but, this all I can really offer.
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Old 12-29-2007
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I'd avoid the wooden boat, since they're much more intensive in respects to maintenance and upkeep.

Of the three, I'd second the Grampian 30 as the best compromise. Grampians are a pretty well known make, even though the company is out of business.

The Catalina is also a good choice, and many boats shorter than 30' have outboards as the auxiliary engine. It is also the newest of the three, which may mean some of the systems, like the rigging may be in better shape than on the other boats.

You should probably buy Dave Seidman's book, The Complete Sailor, which is a good book for new sailors to have. The Annapolis Book of Seamanship is another I'd recommend you get. Don Casey's This Old Boat is a third.

BTW, you won't generally find a shower on most smaller boats... A good galley and decent head are what you should be looking for, since you want to do some cruising.
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Old 12-29-2007
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One other thing:
If it checks out well, I wouldn't get too bothered about the Grampian's Atomic 4, esp if it's fresh water cooled. There are 10s of thousands of these motors out there, parts are still readily available.

In their favour they are better suited to sailboat duties than a diesel, run quiet and smooth. Resale is an issue, but the initial investment is less too.

That said, if you like the Grampian you will easily find some diesel powered examples, although the asking price will likely be higher.


Here are a couple of other G30s, (both in Ontario)
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...&pbsint=&ps=30

Last edited by Faster; 12-29-2007 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 12-29-2007
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I'll fix your links!
Catalina 27
Grampian 30
Bene 30
Gaff Ketch
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Old 12-29-2007
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Hi Mx

Nice job looking. Just for fun I went to yachtworld.com and typed in a price between 12K and 17.5k and the boat had to be in the NE. It came up with 134 hits. I like this little Contest 30 below.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi..._id=27026&url=

Here is the search I did:

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...dedSelected=-1

Have fun looking.

Tom
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Might want to check out this Cal 30
as a previous Cal 30 owner, i have nothing but praise for these.
and this Catalina 30 as well. it's almost your floating condo.
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Last edited by uspirate; 12-29-2007 at 10:22 PM.
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I personally would pick the bene, but I like racer/cruiser style boats over cruiser styles........

One issue i will bring up with the Bene. It appears to have the same foam backed vinyl hull covering my 85 Jeanneau has. here is a link to the aft cabin headliner replacement I did, along with a link in that article for the "head area" redo I did. I have also replaced the front Vee berth and main living area.

Size wise, my rig is about the same as the bene, but that one appears to have a forward head, vs mine being to starboard of the entry steps. An aft head in a boat the size you are looking at, will make the lining area seem larger than it is. And for that matter, actually be larger accordingly as far as elbow room.

Just figured after looking at the pics of the bene, to point out some possible issues with it.

For me, it would be the First 30, then the C27. The other two, do absolutely NOTHING for me, so I would not even look at them! The catalina from pics, appears to be the best interior kept up etc of the two I would look at. Also, it appears reasonably priced for it size etc.

marty
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