Highest Volume Bluewater Cruiser

[night0wl]

Hey All,

So, my quest for a Tayana fell short...(mast height too high)...and its not looking good for Valiants either (pricing). I'm going to try another approach now. In the thought that production volume leads to economies of scale and a somewhat depressed secondary market...I'm going to seek a "high volume" bluewater cruiser...meaning one that had the highest production run.

So, does anyone know of a boat that was mass produced (100, 200+ hulls) that is 40 ft yet over 30000 lbs? Anywhere up to 30 years of age is ok.

[JohnRPollard]

Does it have to be exactly 40 feet? Also, understanding your price range would be helpful.

If you are having issues with bridge clearance, a ketch-rig might be worth exploring. Off the top of my head, here are some older designs in the size range +/- a few feet, several of which were offered as ketch:

Westsail 42
Westsail 43
Peterson 44/46
Morgan Out Islands (there are several models in the 40-46 foot range), and Morgan 461/462
Morgan 381/382
Valiant 40/42 (some of the older models are less expensive -- caution blisters)
Cape Dory 40.
C&C Landfall 38
C&C Landfall 43

Also, some newer production models will have been high-volume, like the Beneteaus, 423 being a good example.

This would be a good question to bounce off a knowledgeable broker.

[Jeff_H]

One of the biggest problems that I see in the original post is the desire to find a 40 footer that weighs over 30,000 lbs. 30,000 lbs is an absurdly heavy weight for a 40 footer and so your choices will be very small indeed (more typical of boats over 45 to 55 feet in length). Most offshore 40 footers are closer to 20,000 lbs with the better performing offshore 40 footers being under 20,000 lbs. So setting this arbitrary weight goal for a 40 footer will really limit your choices to lower production volume freaks in the marketplace. A 40 footer that is this heavy is not likely to work well an offshore cruiser having been poorly conceived from the outset.

I would also suggest that by no stretch of the imagination would I consider the Morgan Out Island, Cape Dory 40 and the Landfall 38 offshore cruisers.

Respectfully,
Jeff

[sailingdog]

I'd second looking at a ketch rig, since the main mast is often shorter than that of a sloop rigged boat of the same size.

JRP has a pretty good base list to start from.

I do have to ask, why do you want a boat that displaces over 30,000 lbs. though? Buying a boat based on its displacement is a rather strange way to go about it—especially since boats of a given length can vary over a very wide range, and as Jeff H has pointed out 30,000 is really quite heavy for a 40' boat.

[camaraderie]

Jeff...would you clarify why you don't consider the CD40 as an offshore cruiser? Is there something specific about this CD that you don't like or do you feel that way about all of them.
I know you don't LIKE full keel cruisers with bowsprits in terms of performance and safety but is there some other reason you don't like this boat?

[JohnRPollard]

Originally Posted by Jeff_H

I would also suggest that by no stretch of the imagination would I consider the Morgan Out Island, Cape Dory 40 and the Landfall 38 offshore cruisers. Respectfully, Jeff

Jeff,

I agree that some of the examples I mentioned above are not quintessential offshore cruisers. My list was based on my understanding that the OP was planning to come and go out of Florida (hence the bridge height issue) to areas like the Bahamas (admittedly a vague recollection from his earlier posts). I may be mistaken but I also get the impression his requirements are still evolving and not fully defined yet.

I would not personally choose a Morgan O/I for long-distance bluewater sailing, but there are plenty of folks that have chosen them as well as various Cape Dory and C&C Landfall designs, including the 38. Any of the boats I listed would be fine for Florida-Bahamas budget cruising.

But if for some reason he is set on the heavier end of the spectrum, at well over 30,000 lbs., the Westsails should fit the bill.

[Gramp34]

I'm surprised you guys didn't mention the obvious choice: The Bruce Roberts Spray 40. It meets all the OP's criteria:

1) High production: From the BR website: "There are over 5,000 Bruce Roberts’ Spray's already sailing worldwide plus another 1000 currently being built. "

2) Over 30,000 lbs displacement: 35,840 lb dry.

3) Low mast height: To maintain a low SA/D ratio and easy sail handling.

4) Price: Best D/$ ratio in the business!



Tim

[sailingdog]

Tim—

Most Bruce Roberts designs are home-built or home-finished IIRC. They're not really a production boat per se.

[night0wl]

Originally Posted by JohnRPollard

Does it have to be exactly 40 feet? Also, understanding your price range would be helpful.

I guess around 40 feet would be good. No smaller than 37, no larger than 44

... ketch-rig might be worth exploring. Off the top of my head, here are some older designs in the size range +/- a few feet, several of which were offered as ketch:

I haven't ever seen a Valiant 40/42 Ketch...any links to examples would be very helpful.

Also, some newer production models will have been high-volume, like the Beneteaus, 423 being a good example.

I've basically eliminated the big 3 beamy production boats from contention, just due to reputation and a lot of discussion on these boards saying they wouldn't take Beneteaus, Hunters or Catalinas (even 40+) out across any major passage. I'm open to changing my stance, but with convincing examples (blogs, accounts, etc) of the boat being comfortable and manageable in a blow.

[Jeff_H]

To respond to the questions asked on my post, the OP seems focused on the extreme heaviest displacement end of the offshore cruiser spectrum. I would think that the dual goals for buying an offshore cruiser at that end of the weight range would be robustness and carrying capacity.

My criticism of the Morgan Out Island series and, to a lesser extent, the Landfall 38 is that neither of these boats are particularly robust even as compared to better built coastal cruisers.

My critique of the CD-40 as an offshore cruiser is two fold, carrying capacity and motion comfort. The CD-40's narrow beam and short waterline really limit its weight carrying capacity. Their long overhangs, narrow waterline beam, and deep canoe body, make the CD-40 prone to comparatively wide angles of roll and pitch such that I would consider their motion characteristics unacceptable for offshore cruising. It is the kind of motion that would wear out a crew rather quickly compared to a more predictable, better dampened motion.

Jeff