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  #121  
Old 03-16-2009
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Shawn...that list would be thousands of boats. No one has the time or inclination to do that though reviews and evaluations of individual boats are easily found on google.

ALL...once again I would refer to the rules of this thread:
If you believe a specific boat should be included AND you have personally cruised it extensively in blue water make your case as well.

This is about boats well suited for continuous cruising and living aboard in blue water compared to other boats in their size range. This is not about which boats have successfully made a blue water voyage.


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Last edited by camaraderie; 03-16-2009 at 01:33 PM.
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  #122  
Old 03-16-2009
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Camaraderie,
I would have to respectfully disagree with regards to the information being easily found on Google. I have devoted the vast majority of my free time for the last year and a substantial amount of time prior to that researching and trying to find information on this topic. Finding information about what people like about their boats is easy. The reverse, (at least for me) has been very difficult. As a friend of mine says no man ever married an ugly woman, had a dumb dog, or bought a bad boat.
The lack of negative information with regards specific boats may also be a function of forum rules and fear of litigation. If you read through the postings in most cases, even when people have been severely wronged by charter companies, yacht brokers, repair outfits etc they very rarely come out and name the offending party.
As to the thousands of boats list, yes that is probably to a certain extent true but I think that it could be limited with a little common sense although I do conceed that common sense is not that common. Hobie cats could probably be eliminated as potential blue water cruisers but I am sure there is someone out there who is on there way to Hawaii on a H16 who would object.
As I mentioned the most important thing to me would be the "why" which is also from my point of view the most important thing concerning those boats included in the list of blue water choices. I have a friend who would not raft to a Hunter for fear that it would sink while he was going to the dock. Why he cannot explain. While the Hunter owners I know think they are the bee's knees.
It may be that as an experienced Blue water cruiser these things may be self evident to you, but to those of us flailing about under piles of glossy manufactures adverts a bit of "why this is bad" or "why this is good" from the experienced members of the forum would be most helpful.

thank you sk
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  #123  
Old 03-29-2009
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Bluewater boats

I'm looking at purchasing a fantasia 35 and was told they were built specifically for blue water. we want to sail the world and not have to upgrade later. Can you recommend this boat for blue water passage making?

Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
Since this is a commonly asked question from newbies...I am going to make this thread a sticky that we can point others to. Thanks Sab30! I don't think that this list is definitive or comprehensive...so others may feel free to post other models left off the main list as bluewater boats to consider.

EDIT UPDATE 8/08
Here are "missed the list" boats that experienced cruisers have recommended as Bluewater Cruisers on this thread without objection:
Passport 40
Tayana 37, 42, 47, 48, 52, 55
CS36T
Tartan42
Aries 32
Fuji 32
Peterson 44
Shannon 38
Cal 39
Gulfstar 50
Downeast32
RobinHood 36, 40
Caliber47
Rafiki 37

Just trying to keep everything succinct for new boat shoppers! Note that the boats on this list may have been overlooked by Mahina OR for some reason disliked. (Example: Caliber47 seems to have been eliminated solely due to aesthetic preference. Other boats have known issues which if repaired end up being very seaworthy vessels. ) Nevertheless...worth consideration.
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  #124  
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And what is your opinion of a Fantasia 35? We want a blue water cruiser to live on and explore the world. We know we will get bad weather along the way and have to cross many vast oceans. Please let me know your opinion of this boat. I"m told it was made for this. It's just my husband and I.
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  #125  
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Please read the rules of this forum and post your question elsewhere. Thanks.
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  #126  
Old 04-08-2009
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Hirsch gulfstar 45

I am glad that Gulfstar made the list. Some of the Gulfstar models are less than desirable to me. The one I did buy ( my 3rd and last sailboat) is a Hirsch Gulfstar 45. The points I like the best are the the extra ballast compared to the Tartan 44, The huge chain plates like the Morgan 60, the shorter robust mast like the Morgan 41, all the tankage, (150 gal of water and 97 gal of fuel) no teak on the out side of the boat ( all stainless or aluminium), points well but a little loose down wind, looks cool and still sells for about what it did new so a great buy, ( mine cost $119,00.00 new with dual A/C and electronics in 1985). To buy one now in good shape will run from $89,000-$125,000. After 24 years no soft spots and really minor gelcoat cracking. There are pictures of it on my cruising pictures here. Lastly I wanted to say that it is fast, ( won a few races when it newer like the Amigos Race in 1986 to Mexico ) and very comfortable at sea. Too bad they only made a few. My friend looked for a year to buy a boat and he and his wife just could not decide on one.One week after seeing my boat they tracked one down and bought it. It's been about 9 months now and they are still on their honeymoon with their boat. I've had mine 5 years now and still love it. Sorry to be so long winded.
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  #127  
Old 04-26-2009
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Phew !! Marathon session

First off, hello everyone, I'm brand spankin' new to this group just wanted to introduce myself properly before I rant

Wow, I've just spent 3 hours reading the posts on this thread and then playing with the spreadsheet that emagin put up for us to review (thanks btw). A few thoughts pop immediately to mind. The author of the original, hotly debated list is like like a few of us, HUMAN. He's got his biases and his own opinions and while I respect his experience and knowledge base, I also was taught since childhood that opinions are like (insert gender neutral body part here). Everyone's got one.

I think that Neal's list is more of an introduction to what's out there that he's either had first hand experience with, or more likely, has spoken to those who do and whose opinions he respects. For me, in the middle of my own search for something to take me 'cross oceans AND to gunkhole in, I found his list a great starting point in my deliberations. Not the definitive list from which to choose. Afterall, as mentioned earlier, people crossed the pacific in rafts and some Kiwi or Frenchman is probably kitting out a Hobi or bathtub with a broom handle & sheets to give it a go.

For me as a basic neophyte to Blue Water voyaging, this list got me looking at some of the mfr's of the various boats, looking at any apparent common threads and then using those as a base line. His list has shown me the breadth of boats out there that could fit my needs, but in the end, I'll choose the one that gives me that tingle, regardless of lists or stats. Don't get me wrong, the stats & lists mean a helluva lot but they're the pointer, not the final determinant factor. Someone here posted that "No man has ever married an ugly wife, had a dumb dog or bought a bad boat" and truer words haven't been spoken.

We each love our boats, flaws included. That's what gives 'em personality and like a spouse, those imperfections become things that are endearing & irritating at the same time. My first boat was a Bombardier dinghy, granted, I was only 12 or 13 at the time but she was mine and by god, there simply wasn't a better boat on the water !
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  #128  
Old 04-26-2009
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I am updating the spreadsheet to include marks notifying if the boat is recommended by: Mahina Expeditions List, Kretschmer's "Used Boat Notebook" and John Holtrop's affordable cruising boats list (also in Cruising World 1998).

Am trying to combine the hard numbers with analysis (calculations) and overview, so that you can compare a bunch of boats.

Seems to me this is useful because:
Most of the calculators are accurate but myopic, no big picture
Forum threads like this are great but scattered and time-sequential (not sortable)
General lists (Mahina) have little data

8-2009 update sheet more

The best thing would be this thread and accurate data on the list of all boats.

I am adding this thread as a source for the spreadsheet (Definitions Tab at bottom)

Last edited by emagin; 08-24-2009 at 07:41 PM. Reason: edits
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  #129  
Old 04-26-2009
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emagin,

I like the spreadsheet and have already made a few additions. they're indicated with the * in column A. Nothing exciting except some updated figures for the "dream boats" if I won the lottery or something like that. Actually, I used those boats as a "highend" benchmark to which I could compare more reasonable boats out there.

Nothing like discovering that a well designed new/used boat at a reasonable cost can actually have better stats than the $1,000,000 ones out there
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  #130  
Old 05-10-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
If you believe a specific boat should be included AND you have personally cruised it extensively in blue water make your case as well.
Based on the above I suggest the Hallberg-Rassy 40 be added to the list of HRs. My experience with them doesn't meet the standard above, but the HR-48 should be there also.

I'm not sure how "new" the "newer [Swan] designs" John refers to are, but in my experience on deliveries the older Swans are good to great ocean racers and the newer ones are good to very good ocean cruisers. John has much more bluewater experience than I do so I defer to his judgment but I don't understand the distinction he makes.

sail fast and eat well, dave
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