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  #11  
Old 02-19-2008
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I happen to have a Crownline 250 CR (I visited the dark side briefly) I purchased new in 2005 for 60k, I can't sell it for diddly.

Gemini owners have, over the years assembled a list that has the base price of the boat for every year since it first came out.

Here is how it works out:
Year asking NEW notes Ratio, asking to new
1990 72.5
1991 62.0 77.9 80%
1992 82.9
1993 60.0 82.9 72%
1994 74.0 91.5 OB 81%
1994 69.0 103.5 twin OB 67%
1994 118.8 twin OB diesel
1995 88.0 98.0 105M OB 90%
1995 102.0 OB diesel
1995 106.0 IB diesel
1996 99.0 111.5 105M IB diesel 89%
1996 89.0
1996 59.0
1997 100.0 115.0 87%
1997 115.0
1998 119.5
1999 102.0 119.5 85%
1999 112.0
2000 123.5
2001 123.0 124.5 99%
2002 110.0 135.5 81%
2002 125.0
2002 125.0
2003 137.5
2004 137.5
2005 180.0 145.5 124%
2005 140.0
2006 147.5
2007 149.5
2008 154.0
87%
(from a spread sheet worked up by Capt. Stu Bell, hull #379, a Gemini 3400).

edit - wow, tables don't work well posted do they?

Over all, from his research, 87% was the average value 'retention'.
My Gemini, a 2007, as delivered was 149.5, with a package that included 4500 in options. I added another 20k in options and extra post production work (install windlass, electrical upgrades etc..) and paid 175k including taxes. I can't say if that's normal, but base price doesn't mean delivered price - only the factory and the owner would know that.

There is a 2005 Gemini on ebay going for that much right now. I'd say it holds up well, of course asking and sold is somewhat different.

Last edited by chucklesR; 02-19-2008 at 08:49 AM. Reason: as above comment
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  #12  
Old 02-19-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by night0wl View Post
... nearly ever manufacturer was claiming that their boat held value like no other. Many claimed that because they sunset models every 5 years, owners actually get more for their 5-10 year old boats than what they actually paid for 'em.

I say hogwash. Boats being depreciating assets just cant work this way...
Bottom line is that you're right.

The sales person's claim is like me claiming that south Florida real estate is a great way to fund your retirement. (this example was chosen especially for you ) Yes, there was great appreciation of property values during the period 2000-2006. Condo's were selling out before the first nail had been driven. However, right now there is a glut of condos and prices are falling. Anyone that jumped into that market in 2006-2007 is likeley underwater on their investment.

Past financial performance is not an indicator of future value. The only way to acurately define the value of something at any given point of time is to actually sell it at that time.

So the question is: would you pay more for a 5-10 year old than it sold for new? How about; would you pay more for a 5-10 year old than a new one?

To address your question of the source of information on the historical data on new boat prices; call up a loan company that specializes in boat loans. They should have all of this information readily available. The problem will be convincing them to share it with you.

Good luck!

Ed
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Last edited by eherlihy; 02-19-2008 at 09:09 AM. Reason: fixed quote
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Old 02-24-2008
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I'd say not to worry about the original price of the used boat -- if you trade a 2002 boat for a 2008 boat, it's going to cost you 2008 dollars to fund the difference.

Our current situation is that commodity prices (petrochemicals, aluminum, stainless steel, lead) have jumped dramatically in the last few years. New boat list prices have been going up rapidly, and used boat prices have been (ok, debatably) depreciating less quickly than normal because of the higher prices on new boats. Salesmen flog this unusual circumstance as if it's normal operating procedure. But even though the used boat sells for a high percentage of its original price, the new version of the same boat is much more expensive than the older one was when new.

So, take the current value of your 2002 Whatsit (from www.nadaguides.com or www.bucvalu.com) and compare that to the asking price for the 2008 Whatsit.

It might be interesting to ask these dealers how they figure trade-in value. After they explain how valuable their 5 or 10 year old model is, tell them you got one, and how much cash will they give you for it today? Or, if they say their 5 year old boat is selling for X% of its original price new, ask them to put in writing that the new boat they're trying to sell you now will retain X% of its price in 5 years. I think the subject will change pretty quickly.

Cheers,

Tim
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  #14  
Old 02-26-2008
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We had a 76 22' Catalina, which we bought for $6500 cdn. Sailed her for 7 yrs, sold her for $9500. Looked horrible and stank like a gym locker when we got her, filled full of nasty treasures, yuck. Glittered like a diamond when we sold her.
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Old 02-27-2008
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I have to agree with Cardiac. You must have way too much time on your hands to do the research needed to create a spreadsheet that won't tell you anything in the end. Excel is a great tool, but comparing apples to oranges just does not work. A 20 year old Catalina, Hunter, C&C, etc. may be worth as much as it was new in 1988. Then again, based on condition, it may be worth half, or the cost of disposing of it.

Boats are depreciating assets..period. They may be worth every penny that you pay for them, but they are worth less today than yesterday. Find a boat that you LOVE, negotiate a good price based on the market ( not what it was worth new in some currency that was a different value), and go sailing. It will do much more for you.

Kind of like the Visa ad...it can be priceless.
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Old 02-27-2008
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"Find a boat that you LOVE, negotiate a good price based on the market ( not what it was worth new in some currency that was a different value), and go sailing."

Great advice. New boats are outrageously expensive. That may be why some older boats are fetching a good buck and even more then when they were new. I purchased a 1978 44 CSY in 1990. Fixed it up and sold it in 1993 making a real $38k on the sale. I sold the boat for $73K. Today, the same CSY's are asking around $100K.
Same thing with the Schuckers. I have a 50 footer. The 40 footers sold for around $55K in the 70's & early 80's. Today, there selling anywhere from $60K-$100K. One fellow with a trawler model is asking $149K.
The new Island Packet, that looks like a Schucker 40, starts around $400K.

But both of those boats were unique. Just like many other production boats of yesteryear, Gulfstars, Out Islands, Endeavors etc. Those boats may not have the flash of the boats today, but they're all good, spacious cruising and liveaboard boats. And even the most expensive ones are still 1/4 the cost, or less, of a new one.

Scott

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