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  #1  
Old 02-22-2008
ImASonOfaSailor's Avatar
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Outboard or inboard?

Hello,
I have been away for a while, how is everyone? I have been looking around for boat shows that have trimarans, but there isn't that many around me. Does anyone know of any good ones that have them? I have been trying to figure out the benefit of having a motor outboard compared to inboard. I also would like to tow it so maybe the outboard would be better?
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  #2  
Old 02-22-2008
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Telstar 28
 
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Welcome back.

Most smaller trimarans are going to have outboard engines. This is primarily due to the limited interior space that most of them have, since most of the smaller ones are folding sport trimaran designs that have very little space in the interior for an internal engine. Also, since many of the designs are made to be beachable, having an internal engine would be a bad idea... since the prop would be very easily damaged beaching the boat.

There are both advantages and disadvantages to having an outboard instead of an inboard engine.

The main advantages include: increased interior room; some what reduced complexity and maintenance of the systems in many ways; the ability to remove the outboard for servicing; ease of repairing or replacing the engine; often better steering and maneuvering under power, since the OB can be steered to help turn the boat.

The main disadvantages include: no ability to run accessories off the engine--like air conditioning, water heater, RO watermakers; reduced charging capabilities as most outboards have a fairly small alternator; gasoline as a fuel since diesel outboards are very rare and very heavy; engine is exposed to elements and weather; poorer heavy weather performance, unless the mounting system is very well designed.

I hope this helps. If you're looking for a show that has a selection of trimarans, you're best bet is the Annapolis Boat Show in October, since Performance Cruising, makers of the Gemini Catamaran and Telstar Trimaran host Multi-hull Demo Days in conjunction with the show. Multi-hull Demo Days allows you a chance to sail on various multihulls, and Corsair, Telstar, and Quorning Dragonflies are usually available among the trimarans.
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Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #3  
Old 02-22-2008
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It helps also that Performance Cruising is based in Annapolis as well.

I think Dawg hit the pro's and con's pretty well though.
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Full, is the spirit, that thinks not, of falling.
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Alive, is the one, that believes, in love.
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Old 02-22-2008
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Sailingdog, Thanks. Tell me about your tri, the things you like and dont like about it. Have you had luck with it her? What are some things I should think about before I buy a Tri? I grew up on a 33 foot abbott single hull, the boat handled the weather pretty nice when it got bad out how does yours handle in storms if you have been in any? And are you in New England?
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Old 02-22-2008
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I sail out of Buzzards Bay, in Massachusetts.

Hmm... Well, I've had the boat for two seasons now, having bought her in April of 2006. I'm very happy with my boat, and put a lot of thought into what I was looking for in a boat before I bought mine. I've sailed on both monohulls and multihulls, but decided to buy a trimaran for quite a few reasons. The reasons I decided on a trimaran are:
  • Speed—higher performance than monohulls generally
  • Comfort—sail flatter, with less heeling, and more comfortable in terms of motion
  • Shallow draft—significantly less than monohulls
  • Trailerable—it's tough to find a boat that can do 60 MPH to windward

As for why I chose a Telstar over a different trimaran, it has a lot to do with design features and value.

The Telstar 28 has almost as much cabin space as a Corsair C31, and certainly more than a Corsair C28, which doesn't even have standing headroom for me, yet, the Telstar 28 is less expensive than a comparably equipped Corsair 28. The Dragonflies were even more expensive. BTW, the more expensive Corsair doesn't include a true marine head, but only a porta pottie and a camping stove, rather tha a full marine stove and galley with sink.

The mast-raising system on the Telstar beats that of the Corsair for several reasons. First, the mast can be lowered or raised in about 15 minutes by a single person on the Telstar 28, using a genoa sheet winch and a single mast-raising control line. This can be done on the trailer or on the water, unlike the Corsair system which relies on the trailer winch. The mast raising process on the Telstar also can be stopped anywhere in-between fully raised and fully lowered and reversed at any point with no problems. That isn't the case with the Corsair system--in fact, I've seen quite a few Corsairs that needed repairs from dropping the mast.

The Telstar's amas can be retracted and still allow the boat to be moved under power or stored in a single-width marina slip. The Telstar ama retraction system doesn't require any tools. Most Corsairs are kept on mooring balls, since the amas folding system requires tools and bolts--which can easily be dropped overboard during the ama retracting or deployment process--and the amas, when retracted submerge the topsides and the hull-deck join of the amas, requiring the topsides and deck of the ama be painted with bottom paint if the boat is to be kept with the amas retracted. I don't believe it would all that wise to move a Corsair with the amas retracted.

The ama design on the Telstar also keeps the boat a much drier boat during sailing, since it has an in-board ama deck that tends to deflect the spray off the amas from hitting the main hull.

BTW, the folding ama design on the Dragonflies avoids many of the problems the Corsairs have, but extends the length of the boat by several feet, so makes using a single-width slip more expensive than it would be otherwise, since most slips charge by the effective LOA of the boat.

Are there things I'd change about the boat... sure...and I've changed most of them. I've added solar-powered ventilators, upgraded the ground tackle, upgraded the instruments to TackTick gear, installed a bridgedeck, and a few other things. This year, I'll probably be leading some of the lines aft.

BTW, there's a video on Youtube.com, which was taken last summer, when we were out in conditions that blew two or three boats off their moorings in Newport. The winds were gusting past 35 knots. She handles pretty well when it is blowing. I've added a GaleSail and a Jordan Series Drogue, but am planning on adding new hardpoints specifically designed for attaching the JSD this spring.

A couple of caveats about trimarans in general.
  • Most trimarans have significantly less stowage and cabin space than a monohull of the same LOA. This is actually much of the reason behind my building a bridgedeck into my Telstar's cockpit.
  • They will generally have less load carrying capability than a comparable length monohull and will be significantly more weight sensitive.
  • The amas, while having a lot of empty volume, really can't be used for storage of anything heavy, since that would adversely affect the boat's stability. However, fenders, lines, sails, and things like that can often be stored in them.
  • Most trimarans, due to the relatively small outboard, can actually go faster under sail than under power—for instance, with the 20 HP on my boat, I can cruise at about 5.5-6 knots, with WOT of about 7 knots. Under sail, I can sail at nine knots relatively easily...often under just genoa or main alone.
I hope this helps... if you have any specific questions, please let me know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImASonOfaSailor View Post
Sailingdog, Thanks. Tell me about your tri, the things you like and dont like about it. Have you had luck with it her? What are some things I should think about before I buy a Tri? I grew up on a 33 foot abbott single hull, the boat handled the weather pretty nice when it got bad out how does yours handle in storms if you have been in any? And are you in New England?
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Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.

Last edited by sailingdog; 02-22-2008 at 07:41 PM.
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  #6  
Old 02-23-2008
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Thanks for your response and knowledge ! If you do not mind me asking what did your cost and did you finance it ? What type of loans are available, is there a 30 year plan. I have not looked at this yet, I am 37 and plan on getting my first boat when I am 40, so that will be in 2 years. I took my wife years ago before we got married on my dads boat in Lake Erie and she is now stuck on Monohulls. I have taken her on a Corsair24 , and she liked it but there was no room in it and thats what she remembers! I had a ride on a Corsair 27 much bigger but she was not with me. This guy was not a clean guy and the inside was not to nice and the wind was not good but we were moving. it was a glassy day for sailing, but I still enjoyed it. I think when I retire in 35 years I will be a sales guy for sailboats! I like to plan ahead when purchasing big items! I feel like a bum when asking for rides on other peoples boats. I don't know how else to figure out what I want so I will definitely go to the Demo Days to show her all Trimarans in one place! So does your family fit on your boat or do you have a family, do you live aboard or are you a weekend sailor which I would love to be! I have looked on the net for used trimarans but all i find is Corsairs. I s there a place that you know of that sales used Tri with a selection?

Does Sailnet have a group of people that meet each other with there boats that would be a cool idea for everyone to raft up and have a party! This place is very Knowledgeable! Thanks

Last edited by ImASonOfaSailor; 02-23-2008 at 01:02 PM.
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  #7  
Old 02-23-2008
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Telstar 28
 
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Yes, financing is available, but the pricing for my boat wouldn't make any sense, since PCI has revamped the way they price the boat. They used to offer a base boat and a deluxe boat, and most of the things I have were separate ala carte options. Now, they offer a deluxe version as the base model, since they never sold any of the barebones models AFAIK, and have bundled most of what I have as ala carte options into a single option package. From the last price list I saw on the Telstars, the boat cost: $89,500 with the following options:
  • Honda BF20 outboard
  • Venture Custom boat Trailer
  • Standard Mast--35'6" tall
  • Interior cushions in choice of color
  • Dacron Main and roller furling 150% Genoa on a Furlex 200S Roller Furler
  • Raymarine ST60+ Wind and Tridata
  • Raymarine ST1000+ tiller pilot
  • Plastimo 101 Contest Compass
  • Mast raising system
  • Head-mate RH90 marine head with holding tank
  • Tasman 2000 LP propane stove w/ broiler and 5 lb. Propane tank
  • Galley Sink with Whale Flipper pump faucet
  • Head Sink with Whale piston pump faucet
  • Freshwater tank--17 Gallon IIRC
  • Danforth Anchor with chain and nylon roder (13 lbs. IIRC)
  • Fenders and docklines
Some options include:
  • $4,500 -- Upgrade to Honda BF50 outboard
  • $2,800 -- Asym Spinnaker
  • $1,100 -- Cockpit Bimini
Of course, these prices are almost two years old, and have probably changed a bit.

To give you an idea of what the difference in size is, the Telstar 28's interior is almost as large as that of the Corsair C31. It has 6' of standing headroom through much of the cabin. The Corsair C28 has less than 5' of headroom from what I remember... and is very cramped compared to the Telstar.

I don't have a family, as I am a widower, but do sail with a large number of friends and relatives. My primary crew consists of three six-foot tall friends, and they don't have any issues with space on the boat.

One reason you're probably not seeing a lot of Telstar 28s on the used boat market is that they've only been on the market since late 2004, when the boat was introduced. The Corsairs have been in production a lot longer, and at a much higher volume, so quite a few of them are on the market at any time. The Corsairs are also far more racing oriented, the Telstar is focussed more on comfort and cruising.

I hope this helps.

* The options I put in italics are ones that aren't either available or standard on the Corsair C28 from what I remember.
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Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.

Last edited by sailingdog; 02-23-2008 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 02-23-2008
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I just got home from the Miami Boat show, and yeah, the Telstar 28's a rockin' boat. It's the first thing I wanted to see. My wife and I have a Catalina 309 and we're lovin' it, but maybe we'd have been happy with more speed and less room. Bottom line is that although there's less room on the Telstar, they've use the room intelligently. Cool boat.

Regarding inboard vs. outboard. Of course we're likin' our Yanmar in the Catalina. For the whole decade I sailed a 26 foot mono with a 10 horse on the back I was always lusting after a nice diesel inboard.

BUT...In those rare case where there was a problem with the engine, I could take it off the transom carry it to a first rate repair shop for a reasonably priced repair. If my beloved Yanmar has a problem, there's pretty much ONE place I can go for repairs, and I'm really no fan of this particular dealer.

And while the outboard, as Sailingdog says, has a small alternator and rather limited capacity, your cooling system, fitlers, charging sytem, etc. are all in ONE convenient little package. Not a bad deal.

Number one advantage of an outboard: STANDING HEADROOM IN THE ENGINE ROOM!!!!
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Old 02-24-2008
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One thing about the outboards that I'd point out... for some reason the 20 HP has a larger alternator, or at least it did when I bought mine, than the 50 HP. IIRC, the 20 had a 15 amp alternator, and the 50 a 12... go figure.
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Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
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  #10  
Old 02-24-2008
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ok well we have solar panels but how do run a radio or lights if you have a small generator? Do have a battery or how do run your instruments, can it be all ran from a solar panel?
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