Thanks to you all for such quick and well informed views. Jeff's piece is one that I'll print out and read over and over. I think that there is a consensus that ketch rig is not practical for a boat less than 36' or so and I can readily see the logic in that. Also the point about modern gear for reducing sail area handling halyards and sheets with self tailing winches makes a lot of sense too. One comment, by Jeff, that puzzled me was that he thinks that neither the Fuji nor the Aries sails very well. Maybe he would like to elaborate on that cryptic note.
Anyway, thanks again to all who contributed. I'll continue to read the posts in this excellent forum and may well raise some more questions later.
Regards
Bob
Had a friend who owned an older yawl rigged boat (custom wood boat). It was 36 feet long, and I think he just loved the look more than anything else. Though one advantage, I don't know if it has been discussed here, is another element he loved. While at anchor, the mizzen sail acted as a "riding" sail, and would keep his boat pointed with far less movement than sloops. Another friend who has a CT 41 ketch, likes the same thing about his mizzen sail while at anchor.
__________________ "Always approach the dock at the speed you wish to hit it."
s/v VENUS
1978 North Sea 33 Pilothouse Cutter (Ta Chiao)
Um, I didn't do those hyperlinks in my post to items in the SailNet store. Poor JeffH, his great essay was almost hard to read becuase of those automatically generated links. Kind of annoying...
__________________ "Always approach the dock at the speed you wish to hit it."
s/v VENUS
1978 North Sea 33 Pilothouse Cutter (Ta Chiao)
Unfortunately, the Sailnet forum software automatically tags certain keywords with links to the store. VHF, GPS, Sails, Anchor, about a thousand others will all generate automatic links.
I'd agree there isn't much purpose to getting a ketch or yawl that small, aside from looks.
__________________
Sailingdog Telstar 28
New England
You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.
—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)
If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this POST.
I agree with the formidable description made by Jeff H. about the different rigs. There is one small point I would like to mention in defence of the gaff rigged ketch. The gaff sails are square whereas the sloop rigged sails are triangular. That makes the center of forces much lower (given the same total sail area). In 30 knots wind the ship heels 5 degrees, but of course drifts more than a sloop with a keel. The main disadvantage with this rig is that it is not so good as a sloop rig against the wind.
The ship is a 37 ' rebuildt wooden fishingship from 1935, buildt for fishing in the North Sea.
__________________
Use your head, ram the wall till it falls.
I am looking at two 32 footers: Fuji 32 ketch and Aries 32 sloop. LOA are similar: 31'6" vs 31'10". LWL are 24'9" vs 26'. Beams: 9'10" vs 9'6". Drafts: 3'8" vs 5'. Dspl: 13,115 lb vs 15,000 lb . Ballast: 4635 lb vs 5000 lb. Sail areas are same: 470 sf. Hull designs are quite different: Fuji, designed by John Alden, has sharper clipper bow and cutaway forefoot on keel with full stern and wide transom. Aries, designed by Thomas Gillmer has Colin Archer form with full length full keel and canoe stern. Our intended sailing area is the SF Bay with occasional jaunts up and down the coast. No long distance passages in the immediate future. I have never sailed a ketch but don't see learning to handle three sails a big challenge. Any comments on these two designs and/or these particular boats will be greatly appreciated.
Regards
Bob
A sloop points higher, that's all. A ketch is easier to sail and can be more powerful on a reach, and a very tough rig offshore. The best discussion is in Phil Bolger's book One Hundred Sailboat Rigs. ED
Really, ask artbyjody if a sloop points higher than a ketch or yawl. After today on Oh Joy, he might differ with ya.
Just to clarify, we were sailing upwind at about 2 knots (foreaching) in 12-15 knots of wind at about 5-10 degrees of apparent wind. The sails were full and we were making headway. I've never seen a boat sail that close. The windex was almost pointing dead ahead. Really interesting.
Last edited by CharlieCobra : 03-17-2008 at 12:48 AM.
"Always approach the dock at the speed you wish to hit it."
