hunter 212 vs. US 21 vs. First 235 vs. MacGregor 26s - Page 3 - SailNet Community

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  #21  
Old 03-28-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeEscape View Post
Good review of some Good Old Boats.

Fair Winds
nice article, also found this very informative web page (sailing for dummies?).
(add www to the following: ) catamaranvega.com/vega/sailing/01/theory.html
(sorry can't post links yet)

which got me thinking about the planing ability potential and stability of the boats I've been looking at

Stability:
Beneteau 235: seems to be approx 2900, incl 800-900lbs keel (depending if fin or wing), so about 30% of total weight
US21: 1700lbs, incl 200lbs lifting keel, so 12%
Hunter 212 (#confirmed by Hunter CS): 1800lbs, incl only 130lbs swing keel , so only 7% of total weight ! (ouch! ...initially thought keel was 500lbs but CS told me that was on the 216)
Beneteau if theory would seem the most stable, but you can't beach it, which is a neg on Lake Champlain waters
that low figure on the hunter worries though as it makes me think it couldn't take a larger headsail without modifying the keel...or am assuming wrong?
it's quite a challenge getting all the specs for all these boats !!

As for planing, seems it depends on your lenght/weight ratio, but I don't know what minimums a boat would need, still looking for answers here...

P.S. anybody have experience w/ Freedom 21s? nice ammenities, 1800lbs incl 500lbs fin keel, 180sq ft battened main, 105 sq ft genoa, phrf of about 230-240 though...

Last edited by zemaniak; 03-28-2008 at 07:20 PM.
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  #22  
Old 03-28-2008
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artbyjody is just really nice artbyjody is just really nice artbyjody is just really nice artbyjody is just really nice
Do not discount the likes of Catalina's 25 and 27's in your list.. often found for less than 10K... Very forgiving in terms of handling... enough comfort for two... not roomy to speak if you have 4 or more onboard.. - but for a 10K and under ... as good as anything on your list and probably more of them....
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  #23  
Old 03-28-2008
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too heavy for me to trailer
might be tempted by a Catalina 22.. there's one on sale nearby...
2250lbs (incl?) 550lbs swing keel, 210sq feet of sale, 240 phrf rating, nice interior layout

Last edited by zemaniak; 03-28-2008 at 09:31 PM.
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  #24  
Old 03-28-2008
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Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice
Beneteau 235...off course...ditch the rest
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Old 03-28-2008
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Check out the S2 6.7, 6.9, 7.9, Santana 2023, Mirage 236, if what you are looking for is go fast trailerables
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  #26  
Old 03-29-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpineSailor View Post
Check out the S2 6.7, 6.9, 7.9, Santana 2023, Mirage 236, if what you are looking for is go fast trailerables
these are all pretty rare though..
on top of the freedom 21, anybody have opinions on the precision 21?

I'll admit I'm starting to feel concerned about the size of these boats' v-berth, after reading a p21 review saying the v-berth was suited for children, not adults (i'm 6feet tall, GF is 5'8, both regular/slim build))

Last edited by zemaniak; 03-29-2008 at 05:40 AM.
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Old 03-29-2008
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Beneteau's are nice.

Although I have never heard of a Mac doing this. I guess all brands have an occasional issue.

Beneteau First 235 - Rudder - Transom joint



Quote:
Originally Posted by Giulietta View Post
Beneteau 235...off course...ditch the rest
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  #28  
Old 03-30-2008
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Sailormann will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Stability:
Beneteau 235: seems to be approx 2900, incl 800-900lbs keel (depending if fin or wing), so about 30% of total weight
US21: 1700lbs, incl 200lbs lifting keel, so 12%
Hunter 212 (#confirmed by Hunter CS): 1800lbs, incl only 130lbs swing keel , so only 7% of total weight ! (ouch! ...initially thought keel was 500lbs but CS told me that was on the 216)
Beneteau if theory would seem the most stable, but you can't beach it, which is a neg on Lake Champlain waters
that low figure on the hunter worries though as it makes me think it couldn't take a larger headsail without modifying the keel...or am assuming wrong?
it's quite a challenge getting all the specs for all these boats !!
In the smaller boats - let's say under 22 feet, stability is as much a product of the crew weight and the hull shape as it is of the ballast, probably moreso.

The centreboards and lifting keels are not heavy. They can't be beacuse they have to be lifted manually. The boats are usually ballasted internally in order to compensate, and where you sit in them makes a big difference in their sailing and heeling characteristics.

Quote:
As for planing, seems it depends on your lenght/weight ratio, but I don't know what minimums a boat would need, still looking for answers here...

As far as planing goes... you'll find it happening with flatter-bottomed boats, and it's usually only with a spinnaker flying. It does not happen with a traditional, deep-keeled hull. You are not necessarily going to notice it happening from inside the boat, but it can be apparent when you are watching the boat from the jetty or committee boat, etc. No production sailboat planes to the same degree as a powerboat though.

I know that the Shark and the Thunderbird plane. I believe that some of the newer "sportboats" do as well, but I think that they might be a little "squirrly" to be good first boats.
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  #29  
Old 03-30-2008
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thanks for your imput, very informative !
I will keep the hunter on my list nonetheless. Lots of great boats out there, question is finding them on sale as they all seem quite rare:

Small/ Light
US/Pearson 21
Merit 23 (accomodations look pretty good)
Cal 22 looks nice inside as well
Kirby 23?

Heavier
Mirage 236
Beneteau 235 (not rare but usually expensive)
Santana 2023
Evelyn 25 or 26

Dare to dream (not rare but $$)
ultimate 20 or other antrim
rocket 22
ross 6.50
zero, super calin, yaka, etc. mini
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  #30  
Old 04-07-2008
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Both the F235 and Cal22 I was looking at have been sold, here's my updated short list based on what's available right now in my budget:
- Hunter 212
- Merit 22, 23
- US 21
Plus 2 interesting models that i've stumbled onto: the Holder 20 and the Rodgers 24, although I wonder about the interior of both, since specs/pics are hard to find. Holder seems super small, but fast (and low, makes me think she can't be a dry boat....). There's a Mirage 236 on sale but the interior's been stripped, so not sure I want to invest into refurnishing it.

Last edited by zemaniak; 04-07-2008 at 03:53 PM.
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