I Want a Boat.. A SAILBOAT! Thats my first problem!

[m2736185]

Well I decided I have to get a boat this season! I have been browsin CL for something in my budget..at first I was looking at motorboats, but I think the gas I would burn and the engine maintainance would go way over my budget. I took a sailing class @ school a few semesters ago, but that was in a very small sailboat. But anyways I got the perfect Idea.. why dont I get a sailboat with a lil outboard motor! I only Ran into 2 problems..maybe 3. Moving/Storing the boat. The cheapest Boat slip I have been able to find is $600 Summer and $500 winter...and thats a lil way from the inlet (five towns) for anyone located in NY. My second problem is what do I pull it with? I was going to trade in my Neon for a Chrysler 300, but thats rated at only 1000 LBS. I was thinking about gettin a wrangler but the MPG is so horrible all the driving I do will cost me X2 is gas. Anyways I came along 2 boats on CL...they are a faaaar drive but I wonder if they are worth it? One is a "US Yachts 22' 1982 & 7.5 Hp engine" Seller claims its ready to sail but needs some heavy cabin maintainance. Its going for $500 with no trailer....and is about 3 hour away. The second boat is a "1973 Venture 17 Sail boat " This one comes with a Trailer! It also claims its ready to sail just needs TLC for the cabin....I am looking for a boat to fish and cruise the shoreline... ANy idea and input other than NOOO DONT GET A BOAT?

[sailingdog]

Here's an idea... if you want a larger trailer sailor and are going to keep it in a marina slip during the season... rent a truck when you do have to haul the boat out or put the boat in... that'll be two or three times a season, and beats owning a truck if you don't need one regularly.

Then, you can store the boat on the trailer in the winter, and do work on the boat in the off-season at your leisure.

[xort]

I think you need to give further thought as to what you want AND what you can afford. Fuel will be a relatively small part of boat ownership. It's worth considering but not all that big a deal.
How about spelling out your expectations for what you want from this boat?
A 17' boat will be a bit small for mom, dad two kids & a labrador retreiver!!! Plenty of boating dreams have turned into nightmares when reality hits the fan.

Who, what, when, where and why?

[Stillraining]

M27...
You dont say what you want to do with the boat..( Edit..I guess you did, Fish and cruise shore line ) .but assuming you just want to learn on it in gentle conditions...either will do...I had a Mac 21 as a kid and loved it..
As far as your slip vs trailer/towing issue you have to use some calculations to figure that out...

first this is a fairly spendy hobby /sport...so there will be expenses...but you will have to weigh out what works best for you...

I mean if you can sail every day or several time a week anyway and dont have a place to store a boat then get a slip by all means if you can afford one...but it is expensive...and its a month in month out expense.

If you have a place to park it for free and will only be sailing on week ends Id say trailer it..You will have to figure out for yourself gas consumption vs moor age fees ...we cant do that for you, only you know your distances, cost of upgrading vehicles etc...

You might see if there is someone looking to sell partial ownership in an existing small boat at one of your marina's...life long friendships have come from deals like that.
Welcom to Sailnet

[Sailormann]

Well I decided I have to get a boat this season! I have been browsin CL for something in my budget..at first I was looking at motorboats, but I think the gas I would burn and the engine maintainance would go way over my budget.

The cost of gas would be a consideration but the maintenance costs for a 50 to 75 hp outboard engine are not any greater than you would spend maintaining a sailboat.

I took a sailing class @ school a few semesters ago, but that was in a very small sailboat. But anyways I got the perfect Idea.. why dont I get a sailboat with a lil outboard motor!

This is a good idea, but as you know from your sailing classes, sailboats are not as easy to maneuver, tie up, fish from or trailer as power boats are.

I only Ran into 2 problems..maybe 3. Moving/Storing the boat. The cheapest Boat slip I have been able to find is $600 Summer and $500 winter...and thats a lil way from the inlet (five towns) for anyone located in NY.

That is a good price for mooring and storage.

My second problem is what do I pull it with? I was going to trade in my Neon for a Chrysler 300, but thats rated at only 1000 LBS. I was thinking about gettin a wrangler but the MPG is so horrible all the driving I do will cost me X2 is gas.

Sailingdog made a good suggestion regarding rental of a tow vehicle when you need one.

Anyways I came along 2 boats on CL...they are a faaaar drive but I wonder if they are worth it? One is a "US Yachts 22' 1982 & 7.5 Hp engine" Seller claims its ready to sail but needs some heavy cabin maintainance. Its going for $500 with no trailer....and is about 3 hour away. The second boat is a "1973 Venture 17 Sail boat " This one comes with a Trailer! It also claims its ready to sail just needs TLC for the cabin....I am looking for a boat to fish and cruise the shoreline... ANy idea and input other than NOOO DONT GET A BOAT?

Boats are like anything else - you get what you pay for. You can imagine if you were to substitute "Chev Malibu" for "US Yachts 22". Chances are you would read the ad and realise that a $500.00 car is going to cost a lot of money to repair and update, and in the end it would probably never be a reliable vehicle. It's the same case with boats. Just like a certain model of car from a certain year has a "Bluebook Value" a certain model of a boat from a certain year will have an average resale value. There is a lot of variance in the boat prices, depending on how well the boat has been taken care of, and how well equipped it is, but there is usually a range.

Right now, it would make a lot of sense for you to spend 15 or 20 hours looking at this site here: New and Used Yachts for Sale - YachtWorld.com and getting a feel for what boat prices are like.

Once you have done that, start looking at boats. Involve your whole family in the process - make a day of it with everyone heading out in the car to look at boats. DON'T BUY ANYTHING until you have looked at a MINIMUM of 25 boats, and preferably a lot more than that. Plan on spending most of the summer doing this, because if you wait until the fall, you are going to get better deals than you will right now. Boats are typically priced highest in the spring.

While you are looking at the boats, log in here and ask questions about things you have seen and things you have been told.

Be very cautious. In the case of the first boat that you were looking at, the owner will probably end up giving it away. It is unlikely that it has any market value. It is tempting to thnk that you will be able to pick it up cheaply and refit it to a decent standard of comfort and safety, but it is pretty well impossible to do that for less money than it would cost you to buy a boat in better condition to begin with.

When you are buying a boat, it is standard practise to have it surveyed. This will cost you a few hundred dollars, depending on the size of the boat, but it will be the best money you ever spend. There are things that can be wrong with fibreglass that only an experienced surveyor can pick up on, and there are a lot of people out there that will sell you an unsafe vessel.

Once you have found a boat you like, you will negotiate a price with the seller, or the seller's broker. Note that the asking prices of boats are ALWAYS negotiable. Don't ever pay what someone is asking unless it is the only boat of it's kind in the world and it is in perfect condition. As a general rule of thumb, if you have 5,000 dollars to spend, then you would look at boats listed up to 10,000.

Next you put down a deposit, either through a broker or an escrow agent, and then have the boat surveyed. If there are serious problems with the boat that become apparent during the survey, you either take your deposit back and walk away from the deal, or the seller agrees to lower the price to allow for repairs to the boat. It is USUALLY a better idea to walk away from a boat than it is to buy a repair project, particularly while you are new to boating.

There is a big difference between a boat and a car in that if you are driving somewhere and the radiator blows or the fuel pump dies, you are inconvenienced, but it is not likely that you will be injured or that your family will die.

It's different in a boat. There are millions of things that can occur when you are away from shore, and a lot of them can result in you or your family drowning or being electrocuted or burnt or killed through blunt force trauma.

Even if you do decide to get a 750 dollar boat, spend the other 250 on a surveyor.

That said, I think you are making a wise choice. Sailing is a wonderful sport that the whole famly can participate in at the same time, and while it is not the cheapest pastime, it is definitely one of the most exciting and rewarding.

Good luck in your search and let us know how things are going !!

[m2736185]

Sailormann: Thanks for your reply you provided a lot of information and I intend to take your advise on doing more research.

As far as clarification on the use of the boat. Like i said before the main purpose of the boat would be just sailing along the coast and fishing. Will it be difficult to fish off a sail boat once its anchored? As far as the Who question, it will not be a family boat. Its proly just going to be me and 1 or 2 friends. Now as far as maintainance... exacly what other fees should I take into consideration? I thought a sailboat would be much cheaper than a motor boat especially if I "sail" most of the time and use a small 10 hp outboard engine. Well I will search the forums and do some more research please feel free to provide me with any links or advise

thanks

[Sailormann]

Sailormann: Thanks for your reply you provided a lot of information and I intend to take your advise on doing more research.

No problem - that's what these boards are for

As far as clarification on the use of the boat. Like i said before the main purpose of the boat would be just sailing along the coast and fishing. Will it be difficult to fish off a sail boat once its anchored ?

No - I don't think that there would be any difference between fishing from a sailboat or fishing from a powerboat.

As far as the Who question, it will not be a family boat. Its proly just going to be me and 1 or 2 friends.

This is good. Fewer opinions to consider when you are buying something.

Now as far as maintainance... exacly what other fees should I take into consideration? I thought a sailboat would be much cheaper than a motor boat especially if I "sail" most of the time and use a small 10 hp outboard engine.

It is probably going to be cheaper, but not by a huge amount. When you own a boat - motor or sail - you need to insure it. This can cost you anywhere from $150.00 to $5,000.00 a year, depending on the condition and value of the boat, the area that you are going to be covering in the boat (the farther you go, the more you pay), the material the hull is made of, the type and size of the motor... etc. etc.. It doesn't matter if you do not think that you need insurance, you are not allowed into marinas, yacht clubs or moorings without it. Once it is insured, you then need to keep it somewhere. Ideally, you will end up with a boat that can sit on a trailer, rather than one that requires a cradle.

A trailerable boat can sit in the driveway or the backyard during the winter, if you have, or have access to, a vehicle strong enough to tow it. If not, it has to stay at a yard or marina. You have done some research on that already and have a general idea of what fees can be.

Each season prior to launch, you need to examine the boat and repair any things that have deteriorated. If the boat sits in the water for the season, you also need to prepare the bottom with anti-fouling paint. The topsides need to be polished. You might need to paint or fix a firbreglass problem. Batteries need to be charged, lights need replacing, wiring needs to be checked, etc. etc.

Figure on a minimum of $500.00 each spring, which is bare bones for a small boat. You have to buy and upgrade safety equipment - fire extinguishers, flares, water-tight flashlights, PFD's... some years will be worse than others, but figure an average of $50.00 a season.

When it comes to the motor, maintenance and repairs are going to run somewhere between $50.00 and $100.00 if you have NO problems. Once you have to start buying parts - well - who knows ??? New 10hp motors run about $4,000.00 I think.

If you have a sailboat, you're going to need to replace lines, blocks, pins, and - at some point - sails. What you spend is anyone's guess but it would be worth your while to log on to the Sailnet store page here and check out how much those little pulleys and wires cost. Think in terms of hundreds, not tens of dollars. On the plus side, the pieces themselves can last for twenty years if you are not too hard on them. On the down side - it is not likely that the boats in your price range are going to have much new stuff on them. Chances are it will mostly need replacement.

Sails - they start about $1,500.00 for a small boat (under 20 ft) and can run up to $10,000.00 for something around 30 feet.

So what have we got so far ????

Insurance - let's say $250, Marina/storage fees $1,100, launch/maintenance/update $500, safety $50, motor $100, miscellaneous stuff $250.... you're looking at about $2,250 per annum. Note this is a minimum. I think that if most people added up what they spend, it would be closer to 4 or 5K a year.

So, while it is not cheap, it is no more expensive than golf, skiing, etc. and it's an awful lot of fun.

I will search the forums and do some more research please feel free to provide me with any links or advise

The best thing to do is just Google sailboats or sailing and follow the links. Read as many articles as you can - even if they don't seem to have any bearing on what you want to do, you will learn things from them.

Start here on Sailnet. There are some articles listed in the index. Read them and feel free to ask people here for help if you are having trouble understanding. Sometimes the lingo can be pretty confusing, and boaters seem to take pride in using the old-fashioned terms for things.

Good Luck and enjoy !

I'd also recommend that you take some more sailing lessons. If you spent the summer building on your sailing skills, and educating yourself about boats, when the fall comes you'll be in a fairly good position to find the right boat.

[merttan]

The best boat you can actually enjoy is your friends' boats...
Only fuel you need to buy is to get yourself to the marina and the beer for the guys...
Only cleaning you'd do is spraying the deck with a hose (if you are a nice person)
Only maintenance you'd do is pluging in the shore power...
Am I wrong? Am I wrong? Just get a friend to buy a boat

[Harvester]

My recommendation:
Take it VERY easy.
And listen to the advice you got in this thread (they all come from people that have long experience in similar situations)
Make sure what is it that you like (that's if you even like it altogether).
If you can, sail in other people's boats for a while.
Log on Sailnet and go through the harrass that it means owning a boat similar to what you would end up buying (see on the gear, maintenance, etc. forums) and think if this is something you like to see yourself going thorugh.
Good luck!

[sailingdog]

One point about fishing. Fishing from an anchored sailboat can be a bit more problematic than a power boat, since you do have to be careful of the lines and sails. If you're not flyfishing, you're probably allright though.

I would also recommend that you sail on as many boats as you can while looking... the more you know about different boats, the more you will know about what you want in the boat you're buying, and more likely you will be to pick a good boat for yourself.