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  #31  
Old 05-03-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnRon47 View Post
CalebD,

Stillraining,
(I have been reading this forum for over a year and I still cannot recall what people use for standard abbreviations for their handles),
Thanks, my intention is to sail her, but I thought people might be interested in knowing the cost of trucking a boat this size 500 miles. It was less than I thought given the cost of diesel.
Still....Raining...anything....I like Still

The reason I mentioned it...was that there is associated costs with trucking most dont know and i learned first hand..I will never truck another boat if there is a water rout around.

Last edited by Stillraining; 05-03-2008 at 11:27 PM.
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  #32  
Old 05-03-2008
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My boat buying experience

Still,
care to elaborate? the price I was quoted was with the boat on the hard, so they could just load it on the truck and go. But given that I want a sea trial, it would mean paying the launching costs and then paying to have the mast un-stepped (is that the right term?) and pulling the boat. Then there would be the launching costs in NC, they should be lower there than in CT. Anyway all of that would probably double the $2K I was quoted for trucking the boat.

Sailing it down is certainly worth the experience, but might not be cheap. With my limited recent experience I might need to hire a captain for some of the trip at ($300/day plus travel), and Marina stops can cost up to $100/night (well in NJ anyway that is what I was quoted along the coast). And it is at least a 10 day trip overall, unless you take the off coast route. But then you would miss all the interesting places in the Chesapeake. We have sailed out of Annapolis over to St. Michaels and in and around Rock Hall, so we could skip some of that area. I am sure it can be done on a smaller budget, but I am not sure how adventurous we would get on our first trip with the boat.
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  #33  
Old 05-04-2008
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I just can't get over that center board set up. As you have said, this boat has been engineered to the hilt. There is so little clearance for that 2 ton C/B to fit into the slot that a barnacle on either side might scratch the slot. On the other hand (OTOH) barnacles will not stand much chance of surviving the forces involved with raising 2 tons.
I have always sailed only center board boats, from sunfish up to my Tartan 27' (weighs just under 4 tons) which has a nearly full keel to 3'6" and C/B down to 6' (I also have a 19' Lightning with a 250# C/B). The C/B on my Tartan weighs in at only about 150#. My point is that your intended seems to give you the best of both worlds; both fin keel set up with the option of raising the board. Quite a unique design.
Since your intended is so amazingly engineered I would suggest making sure that they did an equally good job with the pivot point (fulcrum) of the C/B, the pin. Can you inspect that from inside?
The other subjective observation I can make is that raising the board while under sail (with a load on it) is not so easy in most my boats. Sometimes taking the load off the board makes it a lot easier to raise or lower (mostly obvious). Also, when sailing in skinny water the board acts as its own depth meter (do I see a little indication of previous meetings with the ground on your C/B in the picture?) which is an easy fix if it is easy to raise or lower. Groundings naturally add more load to the C/B, especially in any wind, but with the added impetus of the engine to head into the wind the board should be easily raised in an emergency.
Another feature of the C/B is the ability to adjust the center of resistance in the water while underway (while racing). We use our board deployed half way to help us point into the wind but we have a nearly full keel otherwise. I doubt you would need to do this as your boats hull profile is like a fin keel boat with the board down with (hopefully) good upwind capability.
You researched and checked out PHRF (performance handicap racing formula or some such) ratings so what is rating of your intended?
Thanks for sharing and keep us posted.
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  #34  
Old 05-04-2008
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My boat buying experience

CalebD,
The points you bring up are good ones. I have not completely thought thru how I will use this swing keel, other than to raise it when entering shallow water (Duh ). And as you point out, the PO did not always do this when there was just a sandy bottom. The surveyor indicated there was no structural damage here, just paint rubbed off from sand.

There are inboard inspection ports. This one provides access to the keel pin.

There are others that provide limited access to the lifting mechanism.
The swing keel arrangement is not totally unique to these boats, check out the Southerly line of sailboats at Northshore Yachts
These are fairly new and expensive with not much of a used market yet. There is also a boat called the Nightwind 35, but I am not sure of the manufacturer. It also has a swing keel and I am told it would terrorize the racing community whenever it showed up because of its downwind capability, I think. Although I am not sure you are allowed to change the position of your keel when racing. I have never raced, so I don't really know those rules.
In our home sailing grounds (Pamlico sound and the Neuse river) I am planning (hoping?) that the half down position will provide enough pointing ability as the water tends to be pretty skinny down there (in spots). We have friends with a Tartan 37, which draws 4'2" with the board up, and that is the way he sails it just because he can. Although we did notice that it tends to steer straighter (less side to side motion) with the board down. I certainly considered Tartan's as potential boats, but that depth was a bit tight for our creek and the 34 did not improve on that much (I think it draws 3'9" with board up). There are many other models with shoal draft, from Pearson to Beneteau's, but there was just something about this boat...

I did try to compare boats by their ratings (amongst other things; did I say I did spreadsheet?), but I have not found any racing rating for this particular model. Using the best numbers I have for its I,J,P,E; I calculated an R value of around 150 and a Disp/LWL of around 250. So its a medium cruiser, which is what we were looking for, and not much different than the comparable Tartan models.
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  #35  
Old 05-06-2008
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Downwind capability

CapnRon47,

The nice thing about a retractable keel or centerboard is that when running downwind you can lift the board up (half way in reasonably calm seas) and reduce the water drag on the hull by reducing whetted surface area (but you already knew that). In rougher water the board will want to be fully deployed for stability going a weather, depth permitting, or reefed sails with board half up as you intend.

The first part of your delivery should be easy as you can deploy the whole board once out in the Long Island Sound until you duck in to the 'ditch' or ICW. Anywhere there is commercial traffic (tugs, barges etc) you can use the full board (LIS, East River, C&D canal for instance). I have a friend who worked on a tug towing barges and they had to go around Frying Pan Shoals and avoid the ditch altogether (for time = $ reasons) on their way to FL. I suppose it amounts to weather windows and adrenaline, physical ability whether you go inside or out when south of the Chesapeake/Norfolk VA. With you intended you should be able to do either inside or outside the ditch.
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  #36  
Old 05-09-2008
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My boat buying experience

Just an update, because I am anxious and planned to be the proud owner by now. However, the boat is still on the hard, the yard is just having trouble getting all the other boats out of the way (and into the water) to be able to get to the back of the shed where the Holby has wintered. And tomorrow they are expecting a Nor'easter, so it is probably a good thing that it is still there because if they had it in the water without stepping the mast the boat would be sitting there with a big hole in its cabin top!

One other item to bring up is the insurance. I sent in the general survey and they had no problem with that, but they wanted to see the rigging survey also. Now the rigging survey did not find any problems (with the exception of the leather spreader boots which were in pretty sad shape), however it does say that due to the age of the rigging rod it should be considered highly questionable.

My guess is that if I have any trouble, down the road, with the rigging rod the insurance company is going to claim thats my problem as it should have been replaced. This is certainly fair, but it does make me second guess myself about getting the rigging survey. I am replacing the spreader boots with rubber ones for now, the leather ones require lacing and it take about 30 minutes per boot for 4 boots. At $92/hour I will wait until I can put on my own boots!
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  #37  
Old 05-09-2008
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Who are you going through on insurance - nadda once has a rigging survey been required with my purchases... BoatUS... is all I dealt with...
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  #38  
Old 05-09-2008
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My boat buying experience

Jody,
I mentioned earlier that I am considering both USAA and BoatUS as well. It was the USAA affiliate that requested the report, but they did not request that I have a rigging survey. I had previously planned to have one, for my own education, and the general surveyor mentioned this in his report. So they are following up on that and requesting a copy of the rigging survey as well.
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Old 05-09-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnRon47 View Post
Jody,
I mentioned earlier that I am considering both USAA and BoatUS as well. It was the USAA affiliate that requested the report, but they did not request that I have a rigging survey. I had previously planned to have one, for my own education, and the general surveyor mentioned this in his report. So they are following up on that and requesting a copy of the rigging survey as well.
most surveyors that do not climb rigging add that (legal liability). Its no obligation to have one or submit one to your insurance company FYI. Not providing one will not effect your insurance one iota - but doing so will add to the requirements they desire to make sure that can adjust your rates too..
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  #40  
Old 05-09-2008
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m

Jody,
Interesting, they sure did not sound that way when the called and asked for a copy of the rigging survey. I guess I could have told them I changed my mind about having one. But I was busy working and did not think fast enough. Actually, I did not think about it at all, I just sent it in. Part of the learning experience of being a first time boat buyer.
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