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My experience

14K views 52 replies 19 participants last post by  senatorcongressman 
#1 ·
This is my experience in buying a boat. Note, this is not an "in my experience" type of thread, it is just my experience as this is my first boat. The recent 'lurkers' thread egged me on to writing this, although I am not really a lurker as I have almost always logged in; I'm more of a reader.

I started looking 2 years ago, going to boat shows and looking around at local and not so local marina's and boat yards. But I was not making much progress and really not sure of what I was doing (well thats not totally true, I have been sailing for 10 years, chartering and knew I wanted a sailboat as we approached retirement). And then about a year and a half ago I came across this site.

I asked a few of the usual 'already been covered' type questions and I found the responses interesting, funny and sometimes unusual. But I kept on reading and following topics that seemed relevant. I've learned a lot and I've figured out a lot, like: what is it I want to do with the boat, how much do I want to spend, how do I go about buying a boat and how can I be sure I am getting a good boat? Now I did not ask these questions on this site, because (as I have read and learned) the only one who can answer these questions is me. Well most of them anyway. Of course, life has taught me this as well, but somehow buying a boat seems like an out-of-life experience, so it was good to have some reassurance.

So I want to thank those that do contribute here (and that includes the inane, obscene and sometimes utterly ridiculous comments, because things need to be kept in perspective) as their community 'wisdom' has helped me very much in this process, as I am sure it has helped many others.

It took me the better part of a year to answer those questions realistically and satisfactorily. And then several more months of focused boat searching to reach a point where I was ready to actually buy a boat. Needless to say it does not need to take that long, but I am an engineer by trade and just plain anal. Also, it is so much fun playing with spreadsheets. And, of course, there is the obligatory keeping current with what's on SailNet.

So, if I understand this crowd at all, you are probably saying, "Well what boat did you buy!" Well, I am not going to say, yet, as I am also superstitious and while I have an agreed upon price and contract I still have a few weeks before the survey and the sea trial. However, I am open to some edited sharing of my experience with brokers and surveyors.

And finally, some questions. With closing about a month away what other things should I be thinking about? Like, where am I going to put this boat!!?

Thanks SailNet

CapnRon47
 
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#2 ·
What'd you get??? Got photos??? :)
 
#4 ·
I am anxious to see the boat you have chosen. It would be very interesting to read your thought process and reasonings for your choice? Did you find exactly what you wanted or were there compromises? Were the compromises major or the sort that really didn't matter so much?

Mostly curious....

Congrats on realizing your dream!
 
#5 ·
SD - a hint; its a monohull (although I did consider cats) and its listed on Yachtworld :)

Jeff - thanks, I have always enjoyed your knowledgeable responses.

Ed - there certainly where (are?) compromises as each boat has its design purpose. I have a special consideration in that I need a shoal draft, but that still left hundreds of possibilities. I knew I would be doing a lot of day sailing. So, I spoke with local sailing schools, instructors, neighbors and friends I know that sail in the area to try to get a feeling for the sailing conditions (as I am new to the area) and also for what size, displacement and type of boat to get that is best suited for the conditions.

I also knew to get the admiral to go along it would need to be a comfy boat; in really good condition, big enough that we could take it on short (or longer) trips, but small enough that I could single handle the boat much of the time.

Being old(er) I did not want to be in the boat buying and selling business, so I was looking for the one boat that would satisfy the above and my wants. I am a lazy sailor (did I tell you that I was old already?) and so it needed to be easy to sail. I am (was, I guess always will be) an engineer so function usually wins out over form, but I knew I needed to like to look at the boat. I want to feel proud owning it. However, I really don't care what so much what other people think.

So, I made spreadsheets of boat specifications, and compared their PHRF ratings (whatever those are) to rank boats that I was considering. I also needed to establish a budget and price range. So I included boats that I might not buy but that there were enough of them to get a good feeling for the price distribution over age and condition. I can go into more detail, but its not really worth it. Because in the end I found a boat we both liked and that was that. But the process did make me comfortable with my (our) decision as I had to come to grips with all these factors.

I looked at smaller boats (<30 ft) and mid size boats (<36 ft). I decided, based on good input from the community here, that I should get a larger size boat as they are no harder to 'learn to sail' than a smaller boat with todays modern equipment.

In the end I did compromise in some areas, but tried to stay true to the main purpose of the boat, to enjoy sailing.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Depending on your location it can be harder to find a place to keep a boat then it was to find the boat. Many marinas have requirements regarding insurance coverages and being listed on the policy to insure thay are not liable for damage you may cause. Might want to check with your intended insurer to see what they are going to require also, you want your insurance to start the moment you close because the marina may require a copy of the policy before the boat can be moved in.
 
#7 ·
My Experience

Capttb - yes, thanks. Fortunately, I have a solution for the long term.



But the boat is 500 miles from here. I would like to spend some time on the boat at its current location with the PO, then move it. And it is more complicated than that because we are not ready to move to the final location just yet, so I would like to keep the boat local where we are currently for this summer and then move it to the final destination. There are all these nasty state tax issues that really make a mess of that plan.

I have read here that some people do NOT think too highly of BoatUS insurance, but I have friends who 'swear' by it. Any comments? I have a reasonable quote from another company, but I should check out BoatUS also.
 
#8 ·
Ron... Boat US took very good care of me after some hurricane damage on a prior boat on the chesapeake. IMIScorp.net out of Annapolis did the same and provided out of country coverage for me when I had to switch from BUS. I currently am still with them. I would recommend either company for your consideration....and congrats & good luck the rest of the way!
 
#9 · (Edited)
Captian Ron Buys a Boat

Congratulations...After years of searching Ron Found this beauty on Yacht World...He wanted a large boat that could be single handed if necessary...With push button rotating/tacking and self furling sails he found one comfy enough for his wife and complicated enough for his engineering fix...truly an engineering marvel...When Asked Ron says docking is no issue ..."it is its own dock where ever it goes"..But privet dockage has been retained...Many happy days Captain Ron..:D
 

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#12 ·
I have had excellent experience with BoatUS on three separate claims, over 25 years, including a lighting strike in which we kept finding new pieces of damaged electrical components and they never flinched. Plus they have a program where you tell them what is was damaged and they buy the equipment and send it to you saving the trouble of tracking it down, paying for it and trying to get reimbursed.

Jeff
 
#13 ·
My Experience

Cam, Jeff,

Thanks for you comments :)

As a knee jerk reaction I called my home owners insurance company and they have an insurance partner that insures boats. So I have a quote from them, which seemed reasonable ($$), and covered more than just my local sailing area, it included a fair part of the coast south as well. But I will check out BoatUS this week.
 
#14 ·
My Experience Update

I have a few more thoughts to add to my boat buying experience and a question. I have had generally good experience dealing with the brokkers. Several, who have shown me boats, have many years experience in boating including running marina's. They admit they are not salespeople and are more interested in me having a good experience in buying a boat as much of their business is repeat from either their sales or someone else's. I have also not run into any bias in surveyor recommendations. I was given a list of a dozen in the area and that was it.

I intend to go with a separate engine survey, even though the general surveyor says I could hold off on this until we run the boat on the sea trial and determine if the engine is not performing as it should. But I have to move the boat from NE to NC and I would prefer to know that the engine has been thoroughly checked out.

Also, I am considering a rigging survey. The boat is approaching 20 years old and is a mid size sloop around 35' ( I am still being silent about what boat it is until I get the survey's done, just because). The rigging is rod rigging, the boat has been kept and maintained in a yard every winter where the rigging is removed and the mast restepped in the spring. Any deficiencies have been dealt with by the PO and the yard, religiously. The rigging surveyor gave me an admittedly high (conservative) estimate for the survey (~$500). Which has made me stop and think about having it done. If the general surveyor will look at the rigging before the mast is stepped (although he admits he is not going to be able to do as complete a job as the rigging experts) and the yard will make sure the rigging is in good working order when they set the boat up. Do I really need a written report that seems to cover the same ground? Any comments or suggestions are welcome.
 
#15 ·
Well, Maybe.
If the rigger is a GOOD one, he can probably do a better job than a good surveyor on the ground with everything where he can see it, but maybe not if he's not a great rigger.
If it's rod rigging I don't think it can be very old, can't remember when it started being seen alot but it wasn't 20 years ago. Was it ? anyone ?
 
#16 ·
Rod rigging has been around quite a while.... about 25 years or so. My friend's C&C 38 is rod rigged and is from the mid eighties IIRC.

Good idea to go with a separate engine survey given your plans. I'd recommend getting a rigging survey as well. For the trip from NE to NC, I'd carry at least one piece of 316 rigging wire with mechanical swageless ends that is as long as the longest piece on the boat... just in case of an emergency.

I'd get any "reports" about the condition of the boat in writing. If they missed something, the written report will be the difference between it being he said and having proof of what he said.

Good luck and fair winds.
 
#17 ·
My Boat Buying Experience (cont.)

The boat went thru the general and the rigging survey this week and so far there are no major issues. There is only the sea trial and the engine survey to complete. So I will reveal the boat I am purchasing as the Holby Clearwater 35. You can find the boat still on Yachtworld if you search under sailboats for the manufacturer Holby, there are only 3 boats listed. These pictures are from YW but I assure you they match the pictures I took while on the boat.




The only difference is the boat is on the hard, in a shed, so I could not show the full boat in one of my shots. With these surveys done, the boat should go in the water the end of this week.

The general survey went very well and took about 3 and a half hours. About the first hour was spent with the surveyor alternating between striking a nylon hammer and reading his moisture meter all around the hull and then on the deck. He covered the entire surface(s) at varying spacings, concentrating in some areas. He was listening and looking for differences, mostly. At one point he stopped and indicated that this area of the hull was showing elevated moisture, but I was able to identify that as the location of the water tanks. As the boat was up on jack stands and we had to climb a ladder to get into it, he had not been on the boat and did not know their location.

As I mentioned in one of my initial posts (about a year and half ago) when I was just starting to look for a boat, I need a boat with a shallow draft for the creek we are on in NC. This boat qualifies as it has a true swing keel that raises almost entirely into the cabin. With the keel up the boat only draw 1' 10"! (Note: the rudder also kicks up). I did not need this shallow of a draft, but this boat is in such good condition that it was very hard to pass it up.

The negotiations for purchase also went well. The boat has been on the market for a year (or more) and I was able to get it at a significant discount. I possibly could have done even better, but I established what I felt the boat was worth (to me) and was able to better that by a little. Needless to say I will spend the money on some upgrades anyway. Most notably will be for an autopilot and a chartplotter. While the current instruments are fairly new (2006) they do not include these items. So I will be looking for a combination of the two that talk to each other and include a GPS. I probably will want the ability to overlay radar at some future date.

My plans are to move the boat from CT to NC this summer, so I am also looking for advice on such a trip. The cost of trucking the boat to NC is around $2k, but I think the trip should be fun and a good learning experience. I have been searching the forums for ICW and Heading south threads, but most of those start at VA. Any pointers to the best books and threads for advice are welcome.

I really do feel that I could not have made my way through the decision process without the advice I have found in the sailnet forums, so I want to thank all who contribute their expertise and experience again.
 
#18 ·
Hey Ron...she is in beautiful condition and seems ideal for these waters. All good wishes!
As to the route south...search under hell gate for recent threads on how to get from CT to past NYC. Much detail in a recent thread
Also check out http://www.sailnet.com/forums/cruising/40429-long-island-florida-west-coast.html#post262594
for an overview of the rest of the route and some resources. Start a new thread if you need more input as several here have done the trip. With your new draft...you can even go inside on the NJ ICW instead of offshore...not an option for most of us!
 
#19 ·
My boat buying experience

Cam;
Thanks, I have read the recent Hell Gate thread (I think it was a CT to up the Hudson topic) and took many notes about tide, time, currents and which side of islands to go around. I will check into your other suggestions, as well as starting a new thread on the trip. I will be taking my time as I have 'other' issues to deal with as well. I will spend some time in CT learning the boat; the boat yard will graciously let me use their dock for a few weeks. And then head south, but I have not settled on a schedule yet. But so far it has been smooth sailing.
 
#21 ·
Very sweet boat Capn, and I noted on the listing it was crafted in Bristol, RI - on Narragansett Bay, our sailing grounds. Best of luck with the sea trial and transporting her to NC.

I have to admit though, that swing keel trunk really divides and gobbles up cabin space - but suppose it's the trade off for such a shallow draft.
 
#22 ·
My boat buying experience

Thanks all,
I have to admit that my decision was driven by the fact that I really did like the look of the boat and more importantly the admiral really liked the boat. That mostly had to do with its condition, it appears to be a very dry boat and the inside smells great and is clean. There is no main bilge, because of the swing keel, there are bilge compartments

and they appear to have hardly ever held water, so I am guessing the boat is pretty dry. The lack of open space is made up for by some engineering for the table and nav station, both of which fold up against the keel bulkhead. The walkthru head makes it large, for showers and changing, and convenient from the fore and aft of the boat. So as you say there is a trade-off with open space in the cabin, but we are ok with that.
 
#23 ·
The only other hull you will want is a tender.

Unless it comes with one (this in response to Chuckles' humorous remark).
It looks and sounds like a wonderful boat. The only question I have (searched but could not find the answer) is how much draft you have with the centerboard down?
Speaking of tender, I wonder how much sail you can actually 'wear' with the C/B all the way up? Also related is how much the C/B weighs; righting moments etc. My ancient Tartan 27' has a C/B with a nominal draft of 3'6", maximal 6' and can be sailed with the board all the way up with plenty of leeway (a lot less leeway with the board down). I also find that motoring my boat with the board down gives much improved steering ability (as an engineer you will understand this better than I). These are performance issues that you have not doubt already thought of but will want to consider during your sea trial. I trust it will go well.
If you wanted a crew for part of the delivery to NC, I may be able to help get you south of NYC (timing being everything of course).
Good luck.
 
#24 ·
She's a butte Ron...Sail it DONT truck it...
 
#25 ·
My boat buying experience

CalebD,
All good questions and I only have second hand answers at this point for some of them. With the keel down the draft is close to 6'. The keel is lead and weighs close to 4,000 lbs. Here is a picture from inside the cabin partition showing the lifting lines.

There is also a hydraulic cylinder, attached to these lines, that prevents the keel from just dropping too quickly.

This is some heafty engineering only matched by the lifting rudder which is also lead and adjusts from 3'6" down to the shallow draft of 1'10" when up.
The prop has its own skeg

and this helps in steering the boat when motoring and the keel is in the up position. With the keel up I assume there will be lots of lee way, but the mass of the keel is still pretty low in the boat and acts like ballast, so I have been told that it is not really tender (healing) at all.

The sea trial should prove most interesting and is coming up next week. I did contact both the original owner, who had her designed and sailed her extensively, as well as the builder about these very issues and the responses I received where that they both wished they still had this boat! Note: there where only 7 of these boats made from the late 1980's to early 90's. This one is number 5. One of the earlier 'Clearwaters' has circumnavigated the globe. They took 7 years to do it, must have been one great trip.

I will keep you in mind when I am considering making my trip. Do you have experience through Hell's gate down to Jersey?

Stillraining,
(I have been reading this forum for over a year and I still cannot recall what people use for standard abbreviations for their handles),
Thanks, my intention is to sail her, but I thought people might be interested in knowing the cost of trucking a boat this size 500 miles. It was less than I thought given the cost of diesel.
 
#31 · (Edited)
CalebD,

Stillraining,
(I have been reading this forum for over a year and I still cannot recall what people use for standard abbreviations for their handles),
Thanks, my intention is to sail her, but I thought people might be interested in knowing the cost of trucking a boat this size 500 miles. It was less than I thought given the cost of diesel.
Still....Raining...anything....I like Still

The reason I mentioned it...was that there is associated costs with trucking most dont know and i learned first hand..I will never truck another boat if there is a water rout around.
 
#26 ·
Capt she is a beauty. Congradualtions on your well thought out choice. I have a rod rigged boat and I have had the rigging inspected and its worn very well with absolutely no problems.

I would suggest a route I have taken 6 times and will actually be tracing this summer with 4 boats from our yacht club. We are near Baltimore and do the Chesapeake to C&D Canal to the Delaware River to Cape May to Atlantic City to Manesquan to the Liberty Marina ( at the Statue of Liberty) up the East River through Hell Gate and out the Long Island Sound to Mystic Conn.

This take 7 days by itself. If you need a hand on any of the days moving her let me know and I will see if I have off.

Again Congrats

Dave
 
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