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  #21  
Old 05-21-2008
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Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post

I think that speaks volumes for both the design and the designer.

One design that is notable by it's total absence from the book anything at all from the stable of Van De Stadt.

I could check it out myself but I'm being lazy....is he the same Harltey who designed all those ferro cement things ?

VDS - not surprising as to my knowledge no-one has ever built a production VDS in Oz or NZ and if they had it would have been known by the builders name I'd think. Virtually all the Van de Stadts in Oz were either one offs, backyard built or imported.
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  #22  
Old 05-21-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
I could check it out myself but I'm being lazy....is he the same Harltey who designed all those ferro cement things ?
Yes..

That - and the crappiest stinkpots I've seen in my life - is probably why he didn't want to show his face in public! ..but the TS's were an amazing success.

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Originally Posted by tdw View Post
VDS - not surprising as to my knowledge no-one has ever built a production VDS in Oz or NZ and if they had it would have been known by the builders name I'd think. Virtually all the Van de Stadts in Oz were either one offs, backyard built or imported.
Good point. I failed to notice that the book lists only the 260-odd designs built here.

I'd just assumed previously that the Catalinas and Cals and other US-designed boats were all fully-imported (I mean with so many award-winning designers in AU/NZ, why would we need to import designs?) and had not realised before that many were actually being built here a while back...
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Last edited by Classic30; 05-21-2008 at 11:11 PM.
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  #23  
Old 05-22-2008
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One Van de Stadt design listed is the MB 24 (p68). I know this boat design fairly well as I used to race offshore in one in the 1980's. Good seaworthy design. Similar to the Spacesailer 24, but points a bit better in a seaway. Lots of them over here in WA as they used to be built here.
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  #24  
Old 05-22-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilenart View Post
One Van de Stadt design listed is the MB 24 (p68). I know this boat design fairly well as I used to race offshore in one in the 1980's. Good seaworthy design. Similar to the Spacesailer 24, but points a bit better in a seaway. Lots of them over here in WA as they used to be built here.
Thanks.. I'll have a look.
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  #25  
Old 05-22-2008
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Originally Posted by Ilenart View Post
One Van de Stadt design listed is the MB 24 (p68). I know this boat design fairly well as I used to race offshore in one in the 1980's. Good seaworthy design. Similar to the Spacesailer 24, but points a bit better in a seaway. Lots of them over here in WA as they used to be built here.

Minor hijack but I figure the thread has drifted from C28s anyway.

Ilenart, what do you think of your Roberts ? I confess I am not a fan of the guy but I'm interested as I hear both good and bad about his designs.

Admittedly, like Van de Stadt, there are just so many Roberts designs out there that there are bound to be both successful and not.
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  #26  
Old 05-23-2008
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Mr Wombat,

I think the designs are ok. Nothing flash and I think elsewhere on this site it has been commented that they are a bit out of date (I remember reading something that Jeff_H once said about the Roberts designs along this line). They are good seaworthy designs, however there are better designs out there (Van de Stradt comes to mind).

The other negative is build quality. A lot of Roberts designs are home built and the quality runs from very good to bloody awful. You really need to spend a lot of time checking out the boat plus a good surveyor is a must. I'm lucky that my boat was professionally built.

Now the positives. The main one (especially in Australia) is value for money. These boats are cheap so a good one is going to be a lot cheaper to purchase than a equivalent name brand. For me that meant being able to get a decent sized boat without having to mortgage everything.

I also recently prepared a summary of all the yachts participating in Sail Indonesia, as I thought this would give me a good idea of what people are sailing offshore around Oz. Turns out the most popular design are Roberts; mainly Roberts 434, Offshore 44 and Mauritius 44. (next most popular were Halberg Rassys and Adams).

On my particular design (Roberts 45 Classic) I am very happy. I wanted a heavy boat that is well behaved in rough conditions, something we get plently of here along the West Australia coast. I also wanted a boat that could comfortably fit five persons (2 adults & 3 kids). Have also been surprised at how well the boat sails, however that is partly due to the sail size (1,011 sq ft). The fact that it is a ketch rig means the large sails are more managable, an issue for me as I do not want to scare the family. In WA I have seen a lot of skippers scare their wives / families in rough weather to the point where the skipper sails solo and / or the boat is sold. My boat is very well behaved in rough weather, in fact the biggest issue last time in rough weather was that everyone in the family was asleep and I was looking after the boat by myself.

The negatives on my boat is going in reverse (she is a full keel with a cutaway forefoot, so I should'nt really complain) and fixing all the leaks! Still she is 28 years old so I should'nt really complain, plus I'm getting ontop of this.

My boat also has an issue with poor use of space, however this is mainly due to the design of the pilothouse. About 15 years ago a previous owner built a pilothouse over the centre cockpit. I am seriously considering converting the pilothouse into a doghouse and fixing the poor use of space issues. When I firm up my plans more I'll post some details on the Designs thread for people's comments.

Here is a link to page that shows my particular design. My boat has the bow from the schooner, the underbody design of the sloop and the inside layout of the "Roberts 45 - centre cockpit" which is shown on another page.

Roberts Classic 45


Also below is a picture taken last year over at Rotto.


Last edited by Ilenart; 05-23-2008 at 05:29 AM. Reason: pushed the save button to soon
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  #27  
Old 05-25-2008
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Thanks for the info, Ilenart. Interesting reading and a nice part of the world.. (nice boat too!)
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  #28  
Old 05-25-2008
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Ilenart,

Firstly my apologies for not responding to your post but I've only just seen it. (Monday Morning).

Thanks for the info and for your honest assessment. While as I said, I'm not a Roberts fan I do know plenty of people who own them and his Spray design in nothing short of ubiquitous. Many people think of them as utter dogs yet I had drinks with a chap a month or so back who is half way through a circumnavigation and had no real complaints.

Having owned a C28 I know what you mean about reversing a full keeler. Raven is fin and you can park her like a car. When we move on to fin and skeg I am going to miss that attribute although I'm hopeful the fin and skeg will track a little better and that should make up for the reversing woes.

Looks like a nice boat though. Different requirements to ours of course. We don't have kids so our needs down below are very different. Indeed the new boat we are negotiating is at 42' probably bigger than we need or want but she makes up for it in other ways. I doubt she would suit a family but for two old farts like us she is pretty damn good. I must say however that in terms of useable space the 42'er is a gem.

This is the interior plan from the original plans. Ours is slightly different but close enough for jazz. Stowage capacity is immense. Indeed it wasn't until we had her out of the water for survey that we found the locker under the v-berth stowage that houses the hot water heater.

I'll post proper pics of her one day but not until my name is on the papers.





Rottnest looks nice. Somehow I doubt I'll ever get over there. Our plans do include the Kimberley Coast but if we then proceed south it really means crossing the Bight to get home and that does not appeal. OTOH other than those bloody sandflies I really do like WA south of Fremantle.

Where do keep your old girl ? Freo I presume or are you up the river ?

BTW, I presume when you say convert to a Doghouse that you mean so the PH becomes more of a hard dodger. From my experience that would be a good move. Unless you are seriously into cold climate cruising the PH is just too enclosing while the DH is a nice compromise. We have to rebuild the dodger on the new boat and have still not absolutely decided on soft or hard although soft has the inside running at the moment.
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Last edited by tdw; 05-25-2008 at 09:03 PM.
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  #29  
Old 05-25-2008
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TD, without meaning to break your chain of thought..

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
.....
Having owned a C28 I know what you mean about reversing a full keeler. Raven is fin and you can park her like a car. When we move on to fin and skeg I am going to miss that attribute although I'm hopeful the fin and skeg will track a little better and that should make up for the reversing woes.
Our Hartley is a pig to manouever going astern, to which I've always blamed the outboard, but I'm starting to think that the substantial full-length "keel" could be at least partly to blame.

Is there much difference in reversing manouverability between a full-keeler and a cutaway-forefoot? Or is reversing always an issue until you get to a fin??

.. and I'd love to know if a winged keel makes any difference to docking ability, but I guess I'll find out for myself in a couple of weeks.
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  #30  
Old 05-26-2008
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TD,

agree with your comments on the Spray design. The word "tub" comes to mind. There are three or four at my club and I have never seen any of them move. Boat's at FSC, too big to get under the bridges. The plan of you new boat looks good, like you said plenty of storage. I was recently looking at a plan of my boat that specified some storage behind a seat that I was not aware of. Pulled the cushion away and sure enough some extra storage. This is after almost two years of owning the boat


Hartley18, my boat has a cutaway forefoot and reversing is still a chore. My guess is that a full length keel would be worse, a fin and skeg would be better and a fin and spade rudder would be the most manoverable. Still I'm mostly going forward so it's not a big issue

Would'nt have a clue about a winged keel.
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