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  #1  
Old 05-16-2008
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Buying Overseas

At some stage we plan to upgrade to something larger within the next year or so, but 'till now have restricted myself to anything within SE Australia.

Having watched Simon's adventures with interest, I was wondering that for those few here who may have purchased a boat overseas:

1. How did you get the boat back home? Did you follow Simon's example or get it shipped??

2. If it was a transport co., which one, how did they do it and would you recommend them??

3. I've discovered there's a 2-year waiting list for berths in most places in Melbourne.

Did you have a berth ready and waiting as part of a Club membership (ie. you bought a boat to fit the berth) or did you somehow get one once you got the boat back (ie. bought a berth to fit the boat)?

Thanks!
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Old 05-16-2008
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I found out the same thing for Sydney - berths are impossible to get but there are very many moorings available at acceptable prices while waiting to get a berth. Australia gets served by DockWise for deliveries. I think that if the traffic jam at the Panama canal gets unblocked then I will be sailing through this season heading for Australia instead of paying a small fortune for the shipping.
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Old 05-16-2008
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Hey Zan...you could do that Northwest passage thing with global warming and save the canal fees and wait time!!... Just don't hit any polar bears!
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Old 05-16-2008
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And I probably wouldn't run into any floating containers up there, either. Will you lead the way with your somewhat thicker-hulled Taiwanese icebreaker?
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Old 05-18-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanshin View Post
I found out the same thing for Sydney - berths are impossible to get but there are very many moorings available at acceptable prices while waiting to get a berth. Australia gets served by DockWise for deliveries. I think that if the traffic jam at the Panama canal gets unblocked then I will be sailing through this season heading for Australia instead of paying a small fortune for the shipping.
So how do the costs stack up sailing the boat back (one-way airfare, taking a few months off, full safety gear, supplies, maintenance, risk of "hitting a whale", risk of losing your life, etc.) vs shipping the boat back from the comfort of your lounge chair?

I did ask if anyone knew what Simon's boat cost over there to see if the sums added up compared to buying locally, but didn't get any response.

Has anyone done the math? I'm sure Simon did, but he's a bit too far away to ask right now..
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Old 05-19-2008
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Relatively few boats are actually fully equipped for long distance cruising. If you add windvane SSB, Epirb, and liferaft, you get say $12000 US. Radar may be say 2000, the chartplotter past it say 1600. You may need a new dinghy and motor, as what goes on davits isn't necessarily suitable 2500. You also need offshore flares say $400. You are likely to need rerigging as it should be less than 10 years old say 4000, and the chainplates probably need doing. Those prices are approximate as there is some variation and also odds and sods mount up.
You are also likely to need one or two new sails, say 3000, and maybe a couple of solar panels say 1200. Total say 27,000. Forgot haulouts surveyor fees say twice and maybe bottom paint, say 3000 plus.
Costs of travel accommodation etc say 10000. 6 months off work allowing for shopping fitting out sea trials and a fast no delays trip say 25,000.
Obviously you may save many of these things by getting a fully equipped boat, however some of those in effect abandoning a voyage may well have chosen the boat and gear unwisely eg a 20hp motor in a 20,000 lb boat, or in a more used boat it may require a new engine say 14-20,000. It would be harder for you to doas much of the work as you might because of lack of time, and tools.
Delivery someone said was around 25000 plus.
Duty and tax is roughly around 20% on the cost of the boat plus the assumed cost of freight even if you sail it yourself.
So if the boat costs 60k US your total costs may be of the order of 160,000 AUD all up.
But if the boat costs say 120k your total costs may be around 208K AUD.
For that you have a better equipped boat than one you would normally buy locally for coastal cruising. The question is do you need a fully long distance cruising boat.
Note that the extra costs are either much the same ie travelling loss of wages for an expensive boat as a cheap one, but fitting out an older cheaper boat may cost more and be disproportionate to its ultimate value.
This suggests to me either finding an uncommon well fitted out boat which is not worn out and that it is better value to buy a more expensive boat. However you may have to have more cash than you think. You also need to be able to get the use out of it. So a three month delivery doesn't go far in meeting that.
How much you should take into account loss of wages for time spent on what is to some extent a vacation is debatable, however you may still be paying expenses at home, mortgage, insurance, phone etc, as well as extra travel expenses while losing income so it could count for some but not for others.
Trust that helps. Bottom line it depends.
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Old 05-19-2008
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Excellent Chris. Sounds like Dockwise could indeed be less expensive in many cases.

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Old 05-19-2008
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Thanks, Chris - very helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_gee View Post
....So if the boat costs 60k US your total costs may be of the order of 160,000 AUD all up.
But if the boat costs say 120k your total costs may be around 208K AUD.
For that you have a better equipped boat than one you would normally buy locally for coastal cruising. The question is do you need a fully long distance cruising boat.
Note that the extra costs are either much the same ie travelling loss of wages for an expensive boat as a cheap one, but fitting out an older cheaper boat may cost more and be disproportionate to its ultimate value.
This suggests to me either finding an uncommon well fitted out boat which is not worn out and that it is better value to buy a more expensive boat. However you may have to have more cash than you think. You also need to be able to get the use out of it. So a three month delivery doesn't go far in meeting that.
How much you should take into account loss of wages for time spent on what is to some extent a vacation is debatable, however you may still be paying expenses at home, mortgage, insurance, phone etc, as well as extra travel expenses while losing income so it could count for some but not for others.
Trust that helps. Bottom line it depends.
All as I suspected and it does make a compelling argument for delivery "by others"..

I notice also that there are a couple of firms offering "sail-on sail-off" transport - potentially saving the cost of hoisting out at either end although I'm not sure what else.

Who do others do about berthing? Arrange something well beforehand I suppose?? That means it might be 2 years before we get a bigger boat..
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Old 05-19-2008
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Hartley18, suggest you approach some of the clubs around Melbourne and find out how you apply for a pen. At my club they have a waitlist for pens, however you have to be a current member (which means forking out $ for joining fees, annual fees, etc). The current wait here is about 2-3 years. When you are on the waitlist you sometimes get preferrential treatment for temporary pens, ie if someones boat is on the hard for major maintenance, off sailing for 3-4 months, etc. I have also seen some clubs give preference to pens for yachts that are actively racing.

Alternatively some boats are sold with the rights to a pen (ie either owned or there is a long term lease arrangement). If you get something offered like this make sure you have it specified in writing specific for the pen. I previously had a "gentleman's agreement" for a pen, which was'nt worth s#%*.

Alternatively why not get a bigger trailer sailer that you can initially keep on the hard and apply for a pen at the same time. I use to race with a guy at Royal Brighton YC who has a Seaway 25 which he kept in a pen, plus he had a trailer so we could do the Marley Pt overnight race and other trailerable events. He eventually sold it and brought a larger boat, which fitted into the pen he already had.

Good luck!
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Old 05-19-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilenart View Post
...
Alternatively why not get a bigger trailer sailer that you can initially keep on the hard and apply for a pen at the same time. I use to race with a guy at Royal Brighton YC who has a Seaway 25 which he kept in a pen, plus he had a trailer so we could do the Marley Pt overnight race and other trailerable events. He eventually sold it and brought a larger boat, which fitted into the pen he already had.

Good luck!
Thanks for the advice!

I'll take a closer look at Brighton. I'd been concentrating on Williamstown because they have the largest number of swing moorings (okay, I'm cheap!) available and I do plan to do the MPONYR this year, so I'll be keeping the Hartley for a bit..

As an interesting aside: It is cheaper and easier to join the CYC in Sydney and get full reciprocal rights than join most Melbourne clubs ($500pa vs $900pa at Sandy). Why is that? Sydney is a much nicer place to sail.
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Last edited by Classic30; 05-19-2008 at 08:27 PM.
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