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djeeke 07-02-2008 08:48 AM

Small Liveaboard Cat search

After a post on the FP Louisiane I am redirecting my search with a more general thread which seems a lot smarter (I guess I learn fast ?) !

We own a 27 ft monohull but consider switching to a Cat for liveaboard and extended cruising...

My budget for the boat... good one... in the range of 100 to 120k Euro...
Would look at buying in the 50-80k range so there would be plenty of room left for some improvements... (there always are improvements and unforeseen expenses)

We intend, once we have the boat, to move on and start sailing, we would not want it as a day or weekend sailer, I have my Jaguar 27 monohull that does this job perfectly, it easily allows us to go on extended weekends or even longer vacations...
Once liveaboard we will be dependent on our investments income and I want this to be on the safe side...
So every Euro spent is a Euro away from our liveaboard plan, if we are able to get a good cat ready to go for 100k(Euro's) that's where we will go, to the sooner the better. (but will not compromise on safety, maintenance, equipment etc... the boat should be in great shape when we leave)

We would plan on doing some coastal sailing as a start, region and schedule undefined, could be here in Europe, Africa, US, name it... Does not really matter, sailing is great !!! Last year we talked with an English skipper who had been sailing for 7 years, initially left the UK and now sailing Turkey, but hell he enjoyed every minute of it... So a timing on planning to start ocean crossings we can not give. But if the cat we buy would be circumnavigation capable it would avoid us having to trade boats when we decide to go for it.

How well do they it sail? Anybody has a polar or can tell us how she does windward? What speeds can be obtained while cruising? How easy they sail (singlehanded?)... (after all we will be looking at older Cat's)

If it has a dual diesel inboard setup, we are Ok with this... If we find one with outboard engine setup, I initially was not thrilled about this but after thinking a bit it doesn't look too bad... We would probably replace the outboards with a dual electrical outboard setup. We see outboard engines as inside space savers. Electrical setup means instant access to silent power, no need to bother about thinking of emergence engine start in case something happens, just move the throttle and motor off... Does this sound crazy?
Would put one on the dinghy as well so no gasoline required in the boat! A diesel gen unit could be used if we really drain the batteries down. (otherwise battery charge through wind/solar system or shore power) And since a diesel gen would bring Mr Diesel on board, Mr webasto will nicely heat up our entire boat as he does on our monohull !...

It looks like the Benetteau II might be a better candidate than the FP louisiane... Any other candidates ? Oh yes, required headroom... We are 5' 8" and 5' 9" (The Mrs and me that is ;-)

Ending this initial post on this one, hope to get interesting feedback and comments...

Wankel 07-02-2008 10:47 AM

oops, didnt see this thread until i posted in your other one

look at the fountaine pajot maldives. 32' ~65.000 euros

sailingdog 07-02-2008 11:27 AM

There are a lot of small catamarans that are fairly seaworthy. A 32'-35' catamaran is going to have significantly more living space than a monohull of the same LOA. They're have about the equivalent living space of a 45' monohull or so.

Some small catamarans to consider:

FP Maldives
Lagoon 35
PDQ 32 Altair
PDQ 34
FP Tobago 35
Lightwave 35

Most of these have crossed oceans, but were not specifically designed as bluewater cruisers.

I would recommend that you read several books on multihulls, since, by the sounds of it, you don't have much multihull experience.

Chris White's The Cruising Multihull
Mike Mullen's Multihull Seamanship

Be aware that there are some significant differences in sailing techniques and tactics for a multihull, versus a monohull. For instance: A multihull reefs for the peak wind speeds as a general rule, where a monohull usually reefs for the average wind speed and handles the gusts by heeling.

There are also some things that you may find unusual about multihulls, due to their design and constraints. For example, the rigging and gear on a multihull is often larger than that on a similar LOA monohull—a Dehler 33 has Lewmar ST30s as their primary genoa winches, where a Telstar 28 has Lewmar ST40s as the genoa winches. This is because a monohull doesn't generate as much force on the sails due to its ability to heel and bleed off excess wind. A multihull doesn't bleed off excess wind by heeling, and generally will accelerate in a puff or gust rather than heel. This is more true for catamarans, which heel far less than even trimarans do.

djeeke 07-03-2008 04:37 AM

Thanks for the feedback sailingdog !

You're absolutely right !
Only sailing experience on a cat was last years vacation on a chartered Leopard 47...

I will certainly get a hold of those books !

And will start browsing for the boats you mentioned, we know smaller is cheaper (a lot) but we don't want to be cramped inside the boat either, especially since we want to live on it !
So if we think we would end up too small, we would just wait one or two years...

Anyway, nothing of this in the coming weeks, I'm off for some sailing in Italy (on a monohull again this time)...

Catch you all when I get back !

sailingdog 07-03-2008 12:41 PM

Forgot to add the Seawind 1000/1100 catamarans to the list above. They're built in Oz...and come to the States and EU on their own power usually.

Wankel 07-03-2008 04:48 PM

just looked at the seawind and it looked really nice.
"THE central walkway between the bows lifts to reveal a ladder which drops down to give swimmers access to the water or to the beach" o_O awesome

Doodles 07-04-2008 11:11 AM

I would look at the Wharram cats, especially the Tiki 38, Pahia 42 and Tiki 46. All are very capable blue water boats. And Wharrams have been circumnavigating for decades. Also, all should be in your price range.

thesnort 07-04-2008 07:13 PM

If I came into some money, I'd buy a Seawind. If I came into more money, a Manta 42. Just a tad more, a Gunboat. A squidge more and it's a Yapluka (something in the triple digits for length). Any more money and I might as well buy myself my own country.

sailingdog 07-05-2008 07:02 AM

The major problem with most of the Wharram catamarans is that they are home-built, often of non-marine-grade plywood, and as such will often have far more serious maintenance problems than a production catamaran that is made of fiberglass. Granted, some of the home-built boats can be absolutely stunning and with detail and quality far surpassing that of a standard production boat—Steelboat's s/v Restless is one that comes to mind—but that is generally a very rare exception.

djeeke 02-11-2009 02:23 PM

Still alive....
Hi you all...

I have been silent for some time due to some drastic changes in my life :( but am still dreaming...
And we still want to live our dream so reviving the thread !!! :D
Our budget has been cut quite a bit :( but we can still go for a bit older (and I guess a bit smaller) boat than originally planned.

We had a look around and saw a 32ft Iroquois (listed on yachtworld, located in Italy) and one listed on pacificbrokers (named Skana Sting, located BC) that could be possible candidates.

So any Iroquois owners (and people who have sailed them), please feel welcome to give us some feedback on this boat... (I read somewhere the sailplan could be improved and the Iroquois might have tendancy to lift a hull (capsize danger?))

Would there be room to install a shower ?
With the outboard engines, how to best produce electricity for the appliances? (I am still thinking converting to electrical and installing a diesel gen but am afraid this smaller cat will not be able to cope with the extra weight of the batteries and generator so maybe keeping the outboards and just installing a smaller gen would be a better choice)

Is there a big difference in space and carrying capacity between the 30 and 32 ft Iroquois? If not, obviously there are some 30ft ones on the market as well that could be interesting...

Anyway, many thanks for any feedback, keep in mind we are looking for a liveaboard boat ! :D

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