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  #11  
Old 07-26-2008
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Your knowledge and wisdom please.

"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing."

- Socrates
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  #12  
Old 07-27-2008
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camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
10...you might PM our other moderator Jeff_H for info on good composite/custom guys he knows who does good work on the cutting edge. Of course this means a VERY high $$ boat for a given size.
The ONLY true full keel boat I am aware of being made in the US today is the Robinhood36 made by Robinhood Marine up in Maine on a semi custom basis from the original Cape Dory 36 Alden design.
When I said kevlar/aramid/composite earlier I was really talking about conventional construction but reinforced on all leading edges with the appropriate advanced material...much as Hylas and others have done...but perhaps you are looking for a state of the art hull which would be kind of a waste with a full keel!
I would also look for a watertight collision bulkhead up front .
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  #13  
Old 07-27-2008
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Regarding the hull, you are correct with the later. I was at first looking at steel because I do plan on spending time in icy Northern waters as well as tropical and it is something that I can work with myself. I'm not the best welder but my work is not to messy. And I dont mind the occasional sanding for rust. But a fiberglass hull reinforced with composite at key points would be much lighter, easier to work with and take some abuse if any is given in the reinforced areas. Atleast this is what I came to know some 30 years back when gun stocks began being manufactured in composits.

The boat's hull being lighter would allow me more weight designated to the water and fuel tanks. Please correct me if my thoughts are incorrect on this.

Does anyone know of a weight to knots formula? I'll want the weight below for a smoother sail but would like to not drop below 6 knots crusing speed.

B.T.W. Although I would enjoy the space of a larger boat in the 72 foot area (Mainly because I'd the storage for items that are purchased along the way); I'll be sailing by myself unless cruising blue waters so I'll probably stay in the mid 40's. 48' at the most.
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  #14  
Old 07-27-2008
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camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
You need to read some books on design & construction. See the reading list sticky.
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  #15  
Old 07-27-2008
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cardiacpaul is a jewel in the rough cardiacpaul is a jewel in the rough cardiacpaul is a jewel in the rough
Ok,
Now that thecuban is in the middle of enjoying 16 hrs of beauty rest, I’ve had a smoke and a pot of decaf, I feel better.

I agree with Cam that you’ve got some reading to do, as well as the full keel thing. Although you'll be hard pressed to say that any of the below are rough on your sensabilites.
Brands to look at? Valiant, Hylas, Swan, Hinkley, Tayana.. Some around here like the Hunter49, but they just spent about 500k for one, so they should be excited about it. Eh?
Every boat is a compromise. Every hull, deck, construction technique brings distinct advantages and disadvantages, those being contingent on purpose, use, and to an extent…personal preference.

Cored vs. Solid? Valid arguments for both, personal preference is sold core, but balsa cored is good enough for Mr. Pearson, I ain’t arguing with him.

I don’t agree that FRP with composite reinforcement is going to be “easier” or lighter, or stronger for that matter. It hasn’t been around long enough for any "studies” to confirm or deny, all you’re going to get is opinion. For me, carbon reinforcement is a really nice idea, it works in many other industries, but how many of those gurus are building boat hulls? I’ll venture to say not too many.

If I’m going to out where the possibility of blowing snot is real, I want one heavy ass mo-fo of a tub under me. As far as space designated for fuel/water/tankage, that’s kind of the point of having a “Bluewater” boat isn’t it. I wouldn’t be concerned with space for trinkets, FedEx is everywhere. See that’s the “thing”… if you’re going out for awhile, the last thing you’d want is lots of space to knock about in.

Take a tour if you will of some of the boats listed above. You’ll notice the cabins and cockpits are relatively small compared to many others. I assume you know the reason why.

Please try to forget formulas and spreadsheets, this may not be a good analogy but that general said the best laid out war plan goes to hell right after the first shot is fired is right on. A “spec sheet” giving knots vs. weight is going to be next to useless. Bottom condition, water current and ambient temp, ports open vs closed, sails covered vs. loose, wind speed, wave action, far too many variables, get what I’m saying?

Electronics, gizmos, do-dads and gee-gaws…
Entirely personal preference. As many people swear by Raymarine as swear at ‘em.
If you’re going out for ‘awhile” consider Radar, EPIRB, GPS, Chartplotter & software, Satphone, (Iridium?) solar, Gensets, lapops and life insurance. Brands? Refer to personal preferences.

Single handing? Unless you were born with webbed feet, grew up on ocean going tubs, I’d be hard pressed to think someone with medium experiences would want to single hand anything larger than say 40-45 ft. (brings the life insurance into play again, eh?) Who is going to hook the mooring ball? Help with dock lines? A 5 kt wind against a 40 ft hull will spin you around pretty quickly.

Suggestion,
find some people locally to you that have “larger” boats and ask them. We’re an opinionated bunch and most of us have no problem sharing them, even when not asked for ‘em. Ask them to show you their boat, what they’d like and what they’d change. You’ll learn a lot, fast.

Lastly, if you’re planning on a 6 month time frame, I’d start writing that deposit check to a chosen mfr soon if you’re going new. Lead times aren’t pretty unless they have “your” boat in stock.
Looking for a pre-owned? Theres literally thousands out there, some worth the bux, some junk. Its going to take a targeted focus to get what you’re looking for and outfitted in that time frame.
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  #16  
Old 07-27-2008
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Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
The ONLY true full keel boat I am aware of being made in the US today is the Robinhood36 made by Robinhood Marine up in Maine on a semi custom basis from the original Cape Dory 36 Alden design.
Cam,

Let me add to your list: -Cape George Boatworks (offering 8+ models of full-keeled boats from 22'-44', designs by Hess and Atkin)
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  #17  
Old 07-27-2008
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Think outside the box. Catamaran. OKay, looks like a box, but there is a reason they call us catacondo's. We carry the comforts of home with us.
Voyage, Admiral, Blue, Dolphin and Lagoon in that order, based on direct experience.
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  #18  
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JRP...Thanks for that. WOW!! Went to their website and they look like works of art! I assume prices for a finished boat are up with Morris & Hinckley? What is nice is that they are still building small boats to go far places!!
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  #19  
Old 07-28-2008
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Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
JRP...Thanks for that. WOW!! Went to their website and they look like works of art! I assume prices for a finished boat are up with Morris & Hinckley? What is nice is that they are still building small boats to go far places!!
Cam, Yeah, they are purrty. A finished boat built by the previous owner, Cecil Lange, was said to be a work of art, and I expect the new owners (he sold to his boatbuilding crew) build every bit as nice. I don't think any of the yard-built boats priced out quite like a modern day Morris or Hinckley, but they weren't cheap either (MUCH more expensive than a comparable-length PSC, for instance).

Many of the boats were sold as kits, so the used market has to be evaluated carefully for quality (and quirky interior layouts).
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  #20  
Old 07-28-2008
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I would argue the weight issue entirely differently. From everything that is known about seaworthiness and motion comfort, all other things being equal, length is far more important than displacement relative to length. In other words, all other things being roughly equal, then a longer boat of equal displacement will have a more comfortable motion, larger carrying capacity, and be more seaworthy than the shorter boat of equal displacement, plus the longer waterline boat will be faster and easier to handle.

People make a mistake of buying a short boat for its displacement (in other words a heavy boat for its length) and expect it to be more comfortable and seaworthy. While it may have a more comfortable motion than an equal length boat of lighter weight (and I use may because it also may not be more comfortable) the longer boat of equal displacement should really be much more comfortable and should be easier to handle, have greater carrying capacity, smaller fuel usage, and have similar maintenance costs and so on.

At the heart of it, I suggest that you fugure out how much displacement you need to accomplish your goals and then (within reason) look to find a suitable boat of the longest length that has that displacement.

Respectfully,
Jeff
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