Performance Cruiser

[welshwind]

I don't want to start any wars ...

On a trip back from Port Washington, the admiral starting talking about a boat that could do better than the 7.5 knots max (and not typical) our Beneteau 36CC can do. After we returned from the trip, it really began to blow and later that night I helped a Sydney 41 dock who claimed to have seen north of 13 knots of speed. However, it probably isn't 'nice' enough below for my wife. And the J boats aren't nice enough either. Something more like the Beneteau First series with more performance oriented hulls but reasonably nice accomodations below.

So, I'm looking for suggestions ... Here are a few requirements:

* 40-45 feet in length (if you need to go to 46, OK, but not interested in getting too close to 50)
* Intended sailing grounds are the Great Lakes. Currently in Racine and the admiral is definitely interested in cruising the Great Lakes when retirement comes. Unlikely to get to any blue water sailing.
* Nice galley ... the admiral is a master in the kitchen. People cannot believe she can prepare the meals she does on a boat. (For those who don't know, the 36CC has an incredible galley...I doubt what anyone comes up with will be as nice, but there are tradeoffs)
* Nice below deck ... it can't be a racer with some minimal accommodations; the accommodations have to be more substantial than that...something she would be happy to entertain in.
* ability to see 10+ knots on a slightly broad reach in 15-20 winds (am I dreaming here?)
* 3-cabin layout would probably be preferable as I'm sure the admiral plans on having the grandkids come (when my daughters get married and have grandkids ... not rushing anything (AND IN THAT ORDER))

I think that is about it. Let me know your thoughts as striking while the admiral is hot is important.

[sailingdog]

It would help if you said what your budget is going to be. Personally, I'd recommend a 38-40' catamaran. It'll have the nice galley, more than minimal accommodations with a substantially better salon for entertaining than most monohulls, will see 10+ knots pretty easily, and have at least a three, if not a four cabin layout.

[GeorgeB]

Good luck in your quest to find this mythical boat that combines both performance and luxury. Many sailors have gone out to seek this holy grail of a boat never to return again. If the gods should smile on you and you are rewarded, TELL US ALLTHE MAKE AND MODEL so we too may live out the rest of our lives in contentment and bliss.

In all seriousness, my wife and I had a very similar discussion on the plane ride back from this year’s Pacific Cup. The criteria was a comfortable boat for the two of us to cruise in retirement, yet division competitive in a trans ocean race which I interpreted to be around 40’ in length, somewhere under 100 in Nor Cal PHRF and exhibit enough interior wood and Corian to be pleasing to my wife’s eye. Our short list so far is a Sabre 40, the Farr designed Beneteau 40.7, the Areodyne 38 (after we gentrify the interior), the J122 (we know the broker), and the sentimental favorite, Cal 40 (put a good hunk of the budget into the rebuild) because, heck, it’s a Cal 40. All of these boats exhibit at least one of the traits we desire and if we throw enough dollars at it, we could possibly build it into our dreamboat.

[sailingdog]

GeorgeB-

Just be careful, since some of the boats on your short list have somewhat less than cruiser friendly sailing characteristics. Check out Liz Clark's blog about her and her boat s/v Swell, and how much she liked riding out a storm in the Cal 40.

[CalebD]

Have you thought of using an asymmetrical cruising spinnaker on your 36'? It would not get you up to the 10+ knots that you might get on a multi but could improve your speed on some points of sail off the wind. I was recently on a Bendytoe First 51' down in the Caribbean for about 400 nm and the owner of that boat claimed that with his modern 'chute' he could get better speeds than the theoretical 9+ knots hull speed of the boat. I am pretty confident that this is true as I watched his progress in the ARC last fall from the Canaries to St. Lucia and they did have 24 hour periods covering over 240 nm (eg., 10+ knots).
SailingDog is a multi advocate for good reason as they do reach higher speeds than a mono-hull. I thought that catamarans can not point as high into the wind as a mono-hull though? Of course with the added speed of a cat the VMG may be a wash or perhaps even better in a faster cat.
The Great Lakes also have a ferocious reputation when the weather gets really snotty so I can't comment on which platform would be more stable in big and sloppy seas. OTOH a cat would motor faster than a mono-hull, sea state notwithstanding.
I wish I had your problems.
Good luck in your quest.

[sailortjk1]

The Great Lakes also have a ferocious reputation when the weather gets really snotty so I can't comment on which platform would be more stable in big and sloppy seas.

Caleb, your right. I have said it a dozen times over in these threads, you don't see very many multi's on the Great Lakes.

[sailingdog]

Caleb-

This is an old myth, and a properly designed multihull can point at least as well as a monohull, and will definitely make better SOG due to the higher speeds it can achieve. Dennis Connor and Stars & Stripes '88 basically showed the world what a well-designed multihull is capable of. That said, a lot of the fat, ugly and very spacious cruising catamarans can't sail upwind or point worth a damn... hence the qualifications I put in my statement.

I thought that catamarans can not point as high into the wind as a mono-hull though? Of course with the added speed of a cat the VMG may be a wash or perhaps even better in a faster cat.

[Sequitur]

To get 10 knots in a monohull from 15-20 knots of wind, unless its an all-out racing sled with absolutely no comfort below, you will need at least 56 feet of waterline length.

[camaraderie]

Sequitur...You'll see 15knots on Giuletta's little speedo and he has her fitted out quite nicely for cruising. The planing hulls today can still have nice interiors and go over 10kt in a much shorter waterline.
I agree that I would never take one to sea...but in the sounds and coastal cruising in good weather for family cruising and perhaps club racing, I can understand the attraction.

Welshwind...take a look at the X-yachts cruising 42...it might keep you and mama happy.
Xc 42 · All the Facts

[max-on]

What is your budget, draft limitations, etc. Also, 40-45 ft is a large variation, what are your displacement requirements?

Everyone knows my bias to the European semi-custom builders in the cruiser/racer/performance cruiser offerings: Dehler, X Yachts, Finngulf, etc.

My first pick would be the Dehler 44 (Dehler Semicustom Sailing Yachts - When Passion Meets Reason), which may appeal to you as a nice balance between performance and cruise, and they offer three models so you can build it to more performance or more cruise to suit your taste. The design will give you comfortable speed and the interior will please your wife. We all know I like Dehler.



You also may consider the Finngulf 43 (Finngulf 43 Performance Yacht) which looks like a sweet boat, although I do not like the IRC torpedo keel for fear of catching something on that and having trouble getting it off.



For something more cruise oriented, X Yachts has a X45c (Xc 45 · All the Facts) that looks like a sweet boat, although geard more towards the performance cruising end than the Dehler and Finngulf. Personally, I think the Dehler and Finngulf interiors are warmer than X Yachts, but I am sure the boat will have more perforamnce than your average cruiser.




On the other hand, you could always get a cruise version of the Pogo 40 (Pogo 40 - Presentation (2 versions : cruising and racing)) and have fun.



If you really wanted to cruise a 40ft dinghy, you could go with a Dalmar Conde 1200 (Delmar Conde), which is Giu's boat, although very customized.