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  #1  
Old 07-22-2002
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HOW DEEP IT IS

ON A PREVIOUS DISCUSSION I NOTED JEFF AND OTHERS GIVING ADVICE TO SOMEONE LOOKING FOR A CRUISER/GO ON THE OUTSIDE TO THE ISLANDS TYPE BOAT. UP AROUND THE MID BAY THINGS ARE A BIT SHOALY AND WAS THINKING ABOUT SWING KEELS AND GUNKHOLING, HOW ABOUT A LIST OF MID SEVENTIES TO MID EIGHTIES BOATS IN THE 27 TO 30 FOOT RANGE, I ADMIT THE TARTAN YOU CHOOSE JEFF IS A SWEET HANDLING BOAT BUT WITH FIVE FOOT OF KEEL IT''S GOING TO BE TOUGH TO FIND A QUIET ANCHORAGE WITH ENOUGH WATER UNDER YOU UNLESS YOUR IN THE CHANNEL SO HOW ABOUT IT ARE THERE FIVE OR SIX BOATS THAT CAN FILL THE BILL.
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Old 07-22-2002
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HOW DEEP IT IS

First of all quit shouting! 8^) (All caps is internet-eze for shouting)

To talk to your points, In my experience cruising the Chesapeake Bay for nearly 20 years, the last 15 with a boat that drew over 5 feet and for almost the last year in a boat that draws 6''-4". I don''t think that five feet of draft is an unreasonable depth for cruising the mid-Chesapeake. At least I haven''t found it so.

I am not a big fan of swing keels offshore. If you must have a retractable keel depth I strongly recommend a keel/centerboard or a lift keel. The problem with swing keels is that they are hard to lock down and so can swing shut in a major knockdown (I''ve actually been on a boat that did that out in the Atlantic) and you are suddenly very short of stability.

While keel/centerboard boats were very popular in the late 1950, through the 1960''s and into the early 1970''s. Few were put into production after the mid-1970''s in the size range your are considering. If you really want a keel centerboard boat I would suggest considering late 1960''s era MORC boats which were predominantly K/Cb''ers.

Jeff
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Old 07-23-2002
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HOW DEEP IT IS

Thanks Jeff
please excuse my breach I have only been on the bay for about two years and have less knowledge of boats than i would like. the reason for asking was to get up to speed on things. Only had one swing keel boat a 22 catalina the wire for retracting the keel would start humming (no I don''t know the tune) when the boat was going about as fast as it would go. Anyway the boat could get into really shallow areas a you could almost put it on the beach and explore. It came to mind when I saw an ad for a new boat with retracting keel a seaward eagle I think with a draft of 22" to 60" thought for the bay that it might eliminate some of the more unpleasant moments on the water oh well!
loks like I''ll have to pay more attenion to the channels in the future
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Old 07-23-2002
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HOW DEEP IT IS

Ken,

Agreed that 5 feet draft is probably the limit for cruising the bay and/or the islands, and less than that is better. You won''t find many K/CB boats in 27-30 feet but starting in the mid-80''s you will find boats with winged keels with shallow draft. Winged keels on production boats won''t give the windward performance of a CB of course, but the name of the game in boats is compromise. Check out such boats as the Pearson 27, Pearson 31, (both models from 1987-1991) and some of the Catalinas. There are no doubt some others that fit the bill, but those specifically come to mind right now.

In the name of full disclosure, I own a Pearson 27. It draws 3''4" which is very nice on the Chesapeake.
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Old 07-23-2002
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HOW DEEP IT IS

SailorMitch,

How''ve you been?

Your comment about winged keels makes me ask. I have heard stories that when you eventually do run aground with a winged keel, you are far more stuck than with any other kind. Any thoughts or experience on that?

Fair winds,
Duane
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Old 07-23-2002
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HOW DEEP IT IS

Ken: down in Marathon in the Florida keys there is a very nice 27'' cb/keel boat owned by a lady named Trish who would love to sell it for $7000.00 but would probably take less.
Its only problem is its hull needs cosmedic
up keep; either a repaint job or a really good buffing out. You can contact her by calling;305-743-0000 and leaving a mess.
As I recall it was a very good design and builder. Good luck
Gene
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Old 07-23-2002
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HOW DEEP IT IS

Mitch:
No mention of the Mighty Pearson 28??
4''6" Draft.
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Old 07-23-2002
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HOW DEEP IT IS

Jim,

Yep, another fine Pearson model got past me. I stand corrected -- among other things. No doubt there are other Pearsons as well, plus some boats made by others (GASP!)that fit this fellow''s criteria. But heck, I bleed Pearson blue so won''t worry too much about them. At least I admit my bias.

You haven''t traded up yet???????
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Old 07-25-2002
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HOW DEEP IT IS

Hi Duane,

Sorry to have missed this message earlier. I''ve found that using the "messages since your last visit" function on Sailnet only gives you the very last message sent so it''s possible to miss something. Glad I checked the entire posting for this one.

In general, you are most correct that running aground with a winged keel is to be avoided. There''s a lot more bottom surface that just loves to get sucked into mud or sand making it harder to get out. Also, you can''t heel the boat over as with a fin keel because doing so actually increases draft, not decrease it as with a fin. You might be able to break up the suction some by heeling, but I doubt it. The rule of thumb is to keep the boat level and back off if possible.

My winged keel has been likened to a Bruce anchor in it''s shape on the bottom. The two wings have some downward slant to them with lots of surface area. I''ve only been aground once and was able to back off to free myself -- lucky! The good news is that with a draft of only 3''4" I can get out and push the boat off if I have to (although I really don''t want to have to do that either.) I also can go lots of places no one else can, which is nice. Oh.....and I have really good towing coverage from Boat/US.
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Old 07-25-2002
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HOW DEEP IT IS

Hi Mitch,

Thanks for the reply. I saw you had replied to a post later than mine and was wondering if you missed my question.

Anyway, I appreciate the comments on the winged keel. Like most things in boats, there''s a tradeoff.

Having read through Nigel Calder''s two big works (Cruising Handbook and the Boatowner''s Mechanical and Eletrical Guide - not the exact titles), I have lots of someone else''s ideas about what works and doesn''t work in a cruising boat. On my first charter last month I skippered a 45'' Jeanneau and got to experience a lot of things for myself about what I would NOT want to have in my own boat.

One point that Calder makes that I especially take to heart is the ability of the boat to take a very hard grounding on the keel with only very minor (and no structural)damage. I''ve run aground before and will almost certainly do so again, but so far I have always been lucky.

Trying to reconcile this "requirement" in a shoal draft boat (SW Florida home port in 2 years) may or may not be easy. Any suggestions are welcome.
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