Small Cat comparison

[serenity4u2]

Hello All,

I am looking at TWO small catamarans.. (Gemini and also the TomCat 9.7).. I see several owners of Gemini's on this site and am wondering if thier are any tomcat owners?? I have reviewed the tomcat website and the two boats seem very comprable with some differences...

I would be interested in some oppinions regarding the two boats.. Plusses and minus...

Additionally, I'd like to know if there are used tomcats on the market in the US. I tried the boat search link here and no used tomcats come up... I am thinking a new boat would be nice, while I am also thinking most will depreciate by 20 percent in the first few years.. I am thinking I might let someone else pay for that depreciation and still be able to obtain a nice boat for less money- maybe with some pre owner upgrades...

Perhaps someone with greater knowledge using this boat search can help me find some used tomcat 9.7... If so, Thanks very much..

Two things I have noticed as differences would be- The tomcat has a trampoline vrs a hard deck... Is this a plus or minus? Like wise I notice the Tomcat has Two small outboards vrs one diesle... I think that might be a big plus... All feed back appreciated!!!

[serenity4u2]

PS.... either boat would be used primarily as a LA and only short trips in the protected waters of the san Juan islands and Gulf islands.. Maybe some coastal cruising. I have NO desire to Blue Water cruise and think niether boat is designed for such cruising- (I know some Gemini's have done so, but thats not my goal)... I am more for a boat that has space and also has the protection from the elements (PNW sailing)... I also find many sailors spend much time on thier engines in the PNW.. Partly the winds can be light and also the sailing can have narrow channels.. This is why I am thinking two small outboads may be an advantage to the Gemini's dsl engine..

[RXBOT]

Roughly $200,000 is that suitable? 3 staterooms, one head, 32 LOA, 16 beam, weighs 7200 pounds. Maybe buy 2 Telstar 28's and have 2 heads.

[serenity4u2]

THANKS RXBOT, I appreciate your input...

First, I have read the Tomcat 9.7 website and did notice the extra two feet of beam. That would be a third issue along with the first TWO I asked info about...

Second, I am curious if you own either of the two CATS I am asking about or at least know people and have been on both?

Third, As far as the Telstar- I have never seen one in person nor have I sailed on one... I have been on and sailed on TWO Gemini's out of SanJuan sailing school and charters in Bellingham WA.... I can not say the same about the Tomcat and I have not seen any for sale in the PNW... What I have read regarding the Telstar is very good reports. It looks like a fun and fast boat to sail and has many fine qualities. What I also have observed is that it is some what small as a LA for a couple and occasional guests... I also am thinking it may not be as comfortable of a boat sailing in the PNW weather and especially for short trips around both the san juan and gulf islands... I am hoping that the (BUY TWO TELSTARS) was not meant to be sarcastic since I am unaware of most people buying TWO of the same boats unless they plan on having a sailing school or charter club enterprise...

Fourth, Yes I am aware of the listing price of the Tomcat since I did read thier web page. This is why I am comparing the TWO boats for pro's and con's and am seeking input. By the way (BTW) RXBOT, you never did actually address my questions in the original post... Not knowing you, is why I wondered about your response as being sarcastic in nature...

Fifth, I did ask about the availability of USED Tomcats since I do know and see several used Gemini's located in the PNW. Many more so located from the Chesapeak Bay to FLA area... I have not ruled out buying new, rather have considered buying a slightly USED Cat. My thinking is let some other owner pay for the 20 percent depreciation of a new boat. This decision will OBVIOUSLY by limited to the availability of Used boats in my area.

Sixth, I am aware that Both Cats seem very comprable to include price.. Aware that a new one costs 200K outfitted with the extras I'd desire.

Seventh, I have looked at financing a Boat (another subject)... In my consideration I have determined that it would be better to purchase a boat while still owning my home outright. This comes from talking to several finace companies... Later the plan would be to sell my Home and pay off the balance of a boat loan and bank the remaining income.

Eigth, Why the TWO Telstars??? The boat does not meet the LA requirements of either ONE Gemini or ONE Tomcat? Nor my being slightly sarcastic with this question- If I was in the Market for a MORGAN 50', would you suggest buying TWO Catalina 27???

Actually, I do not need or want an answer to number eight... I would like feedback to the questions I originally asked in my post..

Thanks any hoooooo!

[serenity4u2]

I also have searched this site and others for any Reviews of the Tomcat 9.7.. I have not had much luck finding any... Would be interested in finding some in addition to hearing from those who own/owned or also looked into them.

Thanks....

[sailingdog]

The Telstar 28 would be very small compared to either of the cats in question, since it is a folding trimaran. While I don't own either, I have sailed both...

For your sailing purposes, either would be a good choice, as would the MaineCat 30. The hard deck is lower maintenance, and IIRC, gives you a bit more storage on the Gemini, but it does add weight. While the outboards may be more convenient in some ways, the in-board engine will give you more options, many of which may be important to a liveaboard. A larger alternator, engine driving A/C, watermakers, and hot water heaters are all options with an in-board, which are more difficult to install on an outboard-powered boat.

Beam may also be an issue. The Gemini is a bit narrower and can often fit in a single slip, which the wider Tomcat may have trouble with. This can often save you on dock/slip costs.

[chucklesR]

Serenity,
I've been on both at boat shows, and of course own a Gemini. The major factor that turned me off on the TC was the outboard motors; I wanted a diesel for reliability, battery charging, safety (fuel) etc. I don't understand why you would find two outboards preferable, even for a day sail. They cost more, have far less range 24 gallons at 2 per hour as opposed to 36 at one per hour) and costs less to operate. Because the drive leg is steerable on the Gemini it's almost as good as two counter rotating props.
The second reason was location, Gemini's are built within ten miles of my home, and american made
The third was numbers, there just are not enough TC's out there for a good user group.
The fourth was the beam, I have a 18 ft wide slip, tide is 2 feet. Beam is a major factor for me.
The fifth is the TC is more performance oriented, I'm more cruise oriented and the Gem is more cruiser then fast boat (in comparision).
Sixth, I also didn't like the arrangement of the master cabin/head on the TC; not private enough.
Seventh, Fit and finish was better on the TC, but it cost almost 50k (25%) more so that can be expected.

Lastly, the fully enclosed cockpit on the Gemini 105Mc, I can sail when it's blowing stink and freezing cold.

Sail magazine did a review of the TC 9.7 : http://www.sailmag.com/boatreviews/TomCat97/

The review says it's sold at 129k, that is not my experience at all. The last review I read said 199k.

A better, more thorough review:
Cruising World - Com-Pac Eclipse, Etap 24i, Hunter 27, TomCat 9.7: A Pack of Pocket Cruisers

Of course, gemini reviews, with over 1000 built, are everywhere.

[serenity4u2]

Thanks Sd and Chuckles.... I appreciate the input... SD, I appreciate the feedback on the difference's regarding engines.. Important considerations that make the inboard dsl a plus for me...

Thanks Chuckles.... I appreciate the input.. I am pretty much set on a Gemini and was just looking at its competitors... Yes, thinking the TC does not have as many boats available on the market. I'm glad you looked at one and thanks for the input. I also like the enclosure as well... Thanks....

[serenity4u2]

Chuckles, I forgot to ask you a question... Regarding the Head on your Gemini. I have read on the Gemini website that some people complain about bad vents and foul odors... One person replaced their Head with a composite one... Have you had any problems with yours?

[sailingdog]

Serenity-

I think you're asking about a COMPOSTING HEAD as opposed to a composite one.