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  #61  
Old 09-13-2012
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Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
Brokers from Maine argue that it is not worth it for buyers to go to Florida to buy a boat. Gee, what a surprise. Don't you think there might be a little bit of self-serving rationalization there?
No, you need to read more carefully.

None of these people were from Maine, and nothing in my message suggested that. They are from Pennsylvania, Delaware, Virginia, and Maryland (transplanted to Washington state). The broker friend travels the entire world to help clients buy bluewater vessels (and do deliveries), and has also delivered many boats from Florida. He is totally willing to go to Florida to make purchases, he just advises people that they may be buying some hidden problems in doing so. Not many brokers are willing to give that advice, since the self-serving ones don't want to say anything to discourage a sale after the person's "fallen in love" with a boat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
There are more boats for sale in Florida. I just did a quick check on yachtworld.com for monohull sailboats between 35 and 45 feet. Florida has 510 for sale. Maine has 98 for sale. Economics 101, simple supply-and-demand, will tell you that there is going to be more price competition in Florida, and hence the prices are going to be lower.
Supply is lower in Maine. You fail to point out that demand there is lower also. A larger market does not always mean a buyers market.

I was simply pointing out that the difference in price may be due to a difference in condition because northern boats have less weather stress. You haven't said anything to refute that.
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Last edited by TakeFive; 09-13-2012 at 11:47 AM.
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  #62  
Old 09-13-2012
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Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

Southern boats DO age faster, no question. My boat spent most of its life in SoCal and the "sunburn" effects were very noticeable compared to boats that spent their lives here. Standing rigging has a shorter life in the tropics and sub-tropics, boat have the rep of blistering more in warm water etc. etc.

Having said that, all used boat purchases are, or should be on a case by case basis so those effects can be factored in. The easier life of northern boats just means there are likely to be fewer "throwouts" in your search.
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  #63  
Old 09-14-2012
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Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

But then again freeze thaw cycles in the north can cause hard to see damaged areas if there are any hidden leaks which on older boats is very common.

Not that I disagree with the general premise that southern boats get more sun and maybe more use.
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  #64  
Old 09-21-2012
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Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

It's hard to argue a $25,000 price difference as extra wear. My reference is the Irwin 43, $100,000 up north, $75,000 down south. Roughly. You can do a lot of deferred maintenance for $25,000. The cheapest Irwin is in Maine, and displays the kind of damage that is common amongst all older boats, north or south. Quality still has a price.
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  #65  
Old 09-21-2012
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Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

Two identical boats on the used market rarely are. A $25k or 25% difference could mean that someone isn't mentioning water damage in the deck, or a new engine/tranny needed, or a couple of new sails. All little things that *could* easily account for half to all of that difference in that kind of boat.

Different markets and delusional versus motivated sellers obviously make a real difference, but when it comes to used anythings, condition and location count.
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  #66  
Old 09-21-2012
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Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomandKarens34 View Post
It's hard to argue a $25,000 price difference as extra wear. My reference is the Irwin 43, $100,000 up north, $75,000 down south. Roughly. You can do a lot of deferred maintenance for $25,000.
Sounds like you've never owned a 43' $25K can get eaten up pretty fast on a boat that size, even if you do lots of the work yourself. Just a new engine would eat most of it. A full suit of sails would easily take half of it.
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Old 09-21-2012
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Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

A full suit of sails on a 40+'er for only $12.5k? Jon, you must know someone in the garment business.

Main & genoa, fast five to seven grand?

Now, let's talk about "full suit". Heavy air main, light air main, stormsail. Kaching!
100 job, 150 genoa light, 130 heavy? asymetric, two chutes, Kaching! OK, scratch the chutes for a cruiser, still need the storm jib.

I'm almost afraid to ask what a "full suit" from a top name could add up to. I try to avoid math with that many digits in it. But I suppose if you took the shopping list into a local loft, they'd at least order you a pizza and beer while checking the measurements.
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  #68  
Old 09-21-2012
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Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
A full suit of sails on a 40+'er for only $12.5k? Jon, you must know someone in the garment business.

Main & genoa, fast five to seven grand?

Now, let's talk about "full suit". Heavy air main, light air main, stormsail. Kaching!
100 job, 150 genoa light, 130 heavy? asymetric, two chutes, Kaching! OK, scratch the chutes for a cruiser, still need the storm jib.

I'm almost afraid to ask what a "full suit" from a top name could add up to. I try to avoid math with that many digits in it. But I suppose if you took the shopping list into a local loft, they'd at least order you a pizza and beer while checking the measurements.
I was thinking of contemporary boats, not those old RORC cutters with their separate sails for every 5 knots of wind speed and 10 degrees of wind angle.

And I DID say "easily eat 1/2".

Bottom line - $25K ain't a lot to spend fixing up a 43' boat.
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Last edited by SloopJonB; 09-22-2012 at 03:05 AM.
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  #69  
Old 09-22-2012
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Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

All I can say is check them carefully! It's all in how the owner took care of it.

Had a broker fast track me to buy a boat in Miami. Pushed it was a great boat with lots of extras.

In fact, it was a storm damaged, water intruded piece of garbage that was severely under cared for. At least the owner was decent enough to tell me bout the storm damage that both brokers (they worked for the same brokerage) failed to tell me. Thank goodness I drove down and checked it out before paying a surveyor. I smelled a rat.
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  #70  
Old 09-22-2012
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Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

Well, you are all correct. $25,000 CAN be spent in a heart beat on a 43 foot boat. We are quickly get into the "how long is a piece of string" type of discussion. Condition and location count for a lot. All things being equal, means nothing is ever equal. More to the point, to return to the original idea, I think it is a buyer's market. I'm not sure how to address this without some discussion of the economy and by extension, politics. To touch that forbidden zone, ever so slightly, I submit that in a confiscatory monetary environment, preserving wealth is a great concern among those with vast quantities of cash tied up in " floating assets ". If you are taking a beating in the markets and business has tanked, then a strategic retreat from luxuries like boats may be the direction some take. I expect sellers are way outnumbering buyers at this point and that the trend will continue. I, like most of us, track my favorite boats and have watched most of them sit unsold all summer. Some have sold, but they tend to be the ones under $50k. There are some really cheap boats out there but soft decks, engines with tall hours, non functional electronics, tired sails and rot from leaking port lights are a common among them.
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Last edited by TomandKarens34; 09-22-2012 at 05:57 AM. Reason: spelling errors
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