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  #71  
Old 09-22-2012
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Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomandKarens34 View Post
I expect sellers are way outnumbering buyers at this point and that the trend will continue.
I've been watching the sailboat market on an almost daily basis for more than 10 years - YW, Craigs, Kijiji and for a while when I had bootleg access, SoldBoats. It has been interesting to say the least. Soldboats was a real eye opener - brokerage boats appeared to sell for WAY less than the listing price - small fractions very frequently. Typically they sold for way less than I would have even considered as an opening offer.

The market seemed to stop suddenly in the States after the '08 crash and unbelievably good deals were everywhere - 45' race boats asking $20K, 30' boats being given away etc.

That didn't happen so suddenly in Canada - our prices softened but not a huge amount.

Now prices in the States seem to have firmed up some - still cheap by historical standards though. Here the market has really tanked. A lot of it locally is due to the moorage problem - lots of boats for sale on the hard without a berth just sit. Very good prices available all over and lots of people looking but not many chequebooks seem to be getting used. Older boats seem to be running about 1/2 of what they were 5 years ago.

It's definitely still a major buyers market in both countries, at least judging by the advertised prices.
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  #72  
Old 09-22-2012
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Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

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Originally Posted by HeartsContent View Post
All I can say is check them carefully! It's all in how the owner took care of it.

Had a broker fast track me to buy a boat in Miami. Pushed it was a great boat with lots of extras.

In fact, it was a storm damaged, water intruded piece of garbage that was severely under cared for. At least the owner was decent enough to tell me bout the storm damage that both brokers (they worked for the same brokerage) failed to tell me. Thank goodness I drove down and checked it out before paying a surveyor. I smelled a rat.
Of course that has nothing to do with being in a buyers market, but more to do with unethical brokers. Of curse they likely never saw the boat at all so was only going by the listing. But yes you should check any boat carefully no matter the market.

While I have dealt with some good brokers in my search, I have seen the real incentive is there to not be so ethical.
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  #73  
Old 09-22-2012
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Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

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Originally Posted by miatapaul View Post
Of course that has nothing to do with being in a buyers market, but more to do with unethical brokers. Of curse they likely never saw the boat at all so was only going by the listing. But yes you should check any boat carefully no matter the market.

While I have dealt with some good brokers in my search, I have seen the real incentive is there to not be so ethical.
When I was shopping I looked at over 50 broker boats, and a lot of them were dirty, smelly dogs. There was only one broker who warned me that I might not be so pleased with the boat, but he had two other boats I wanted to see so I looked at it anyway (he was right). Every other one described the boats as in "great condition." One of them I drove 7 hours to see in Norfolk, and I was really pissed at the guy. I could never imagine going to Florida or somewhere even further unless I had somebody that I really trusted to know my preferences and give me a very thorough pre-screening. Airfare for multiple trips adds up quickly.
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  #74  
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Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

Hi John B, I think you're right, the market has firmed up, but just slightly. The economic environment has stabilized for the moment. Inflation is steady at three times the rate officially claimed. No sudden surprises in the market for the moment. All quiet, tends to calm fear, the biggest thing driving "just dump it " sales. I expect this to change after the elections. There are cuts to the assorted give away programs and tax hikes rolling down the pike. Pell grants may be ending and quite a few boats should hit the market to pay for the kid's college, for one example. The broad economic indicators seem to point to stagnation rather than robust growth. I believe further " digging in " will be the reaction of folks who are on the fence between money to burn and the folks who must cut back. This fall and next spring should have a modest rise in boat prices. It will be tempered by the fact there will be no growth in take home pay to compensate for the 8 3/4 % inflation during that same time frame. So while there may be some initial growth in boat prices, I don't think that it will be sustainable into the fall, a year from now. A year from now I expect the deals, for those who make the leap, should be off about 8% to 10% of what they are now. Which, adjusted for inflation, means the prices will be exactly the same, but the dollar will be worth about 10% less. I hope that made sense.
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Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

Hi there! Market buyers or buyers market are almost the same. Buyers on market could make help improve the market credibility.
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  #76  
Old 09-23-2012
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So this is a buyer's market for what particular type of boats? The smaller ones (<30 feet)? The older ones (>15 years old)? The poorly cared or maintenanced ones? The ugly, cheap, and I unattractive ones? The modern looking production boats like Hunter, Catalina, Beneteau, etc? The cheaper ones (<$100K)? The new boats? Just which ones? Reason I pose those questions is that I have been looking around for months and based on add alone in several websites I have created my personal opinions. Now, since I am open to see the sold price of any of those boats, it is an incomplete or unreal conclusion. However, I see a few trends:
-nice, clean, newer boats that are practically turn key sell quickly.
-newer boats that have been neglected call much lower prices and sit for a while
-new boats seem to sit forever
-1-2 year old boats seem to be advertised at 60-70% or less sometimes than new prices despite and added features
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Old 09-23-2012
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Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

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Originally Posted by dgasmd View Post
-nice, clean, newer boats that are practically turn key sell quickly.-
At what price though? Pretty low in most cases, especially when compared to the money the seller has spent on them.

Quote:
1-2 year old boats seem to be advertised at 60-70% or less sometimes than new prices despite and added features-
A new 34' that cost $150K or more selling two years later for $90 or $100K sounds like a buyers market to me.
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Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

Norwalk Boat Show yesterday. Wedged between new Bene's and Hunters was this lovely 1.5 year old 37' Hanse. She sad it was available for $175 asking. She said new was $275 ish.
Huge drop. No?
To tell the truth the only boat that caught my eye was a '84 Nelson Marek Morgan 36-6 with fixed keel and brand new Westerbeke. It was not part of the show.
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Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

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Originally Posted by jppp View Post
She sad it was available for $175 asking. She said new was $275 ish.
Is there such a thing as a Freudian typo?
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  #80  
Old 09-23-2012
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Re: "Buyer's Market" - any data to back it up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jppp View Post
Norwalk Boat Show yesterday. Wedged between new Bene's and Hunters was this lovely 1.5 year old 37' Hanse. She sad it was available for $175 asking. She said new was $275 ish.
Huge drop. No?
Maybe. Often salespeople will try to make the asking price sound like a bargain by inflating the "new" price. Macy's is notorious for this, and the same hold true for other markets like boats.

I don't know the boat, so this is just a general comment. But just as a general sanity check, how many 37' boats out there were selling for $275k, even at the peak of the bubble?
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