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  #91  
Old 05-06-2009
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Thanks for the link to your post Saildog. Fantastic advice and much of it I will use while I cull the herd of candidate sailboats.
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“A wet sheet and a flowing sea, / A wind that follows fast / And fills the white and rustling sail / And bends the gallant mast.”
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  #92  
Old 05-27-2009
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Any thoughts on steel yachts...what (apart from rust) should I be looking for..?
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  #93  
Old 05-27-2009
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sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Swimnfit—

Glad to help... good luck and keep us posted.

StewSam—

corrosion is clearly the greatest problem affecting steel boats. However, there are some other issues, and many of them won't be readily diagnosed or recognized by the average boater. The type of steel used is often a huge factor in the longevity and durability of a steel boat, as is the preparation and surface treatment of the steel. Neither of these are something that you can tell by just looking at the boat.

There are also issues of balance and performance with steel boats that are less obvious. If the boat wasn't drawn as a steel boat to begin with, there may be some serious compromises to the boat's performance and stability.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
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  #94  
Old 05-27-2009
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It's a van der stadt Cumulant II design, made by van der vliss shipyard in holland, it's a folkboat derivative, there are lots of them for sale in holland...
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  #95  
Old 07-30-2009
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All I can say is WOW! Thanks so much for the heads up. Great information.
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  #96  
Old 08-25-2009
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When is a surveyor not needed?

Excellent posts! I am finally starting the process of getting a boat bigger than a hobiecat and am looking for a trailerable 20-25' and looking to spend $2-4k. At what point is a boat too small or too low in price to pay for a surveyor (would still definitely use the checklist!)? I am not sure of their cost structure but saw pricing in the $600 range in an earlier post.
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  #97  
Old 09-03-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstorm41 View Post
As a surveyor (SAMS and NAMS certified - 10 yrs and over 1000 boats) I applaud the general spirit of these tips. I think it is very smart to give a boat a very careful personal inspection before entering into a sales contract and hiring a surveyor. I really don't enjoy taking money for giving clients bad news about a boat that they could have seen for themselves.

J. Stormer
S/V TROPICBIRD
I respectfully disagree. I would never make an offer on a boat or enter into any binding contract until a surveyor had seen it and reported back to me.

First, you save yourself the travel costs. If you have to get on a plane to see the boat and stay overnight, a survey is always cheaper than going yourself.

Secondly, a surveyor is going to see things that I don't see. He evaluates hundreds of boats and has a basis for comparison of this particular boat to similar boats. I don't.

If the surveyor gives me a positive report, then and only then will I go see the boat.

But before retaining the surveyor, I ask the broker for any prior surveys, for pictures and other details that were not in the advertisment. I call the builder and ask questions, or if the builder is defunct I try to find someone who worked for the builder. I scour the web for information on the boat. I try to locate the person who owned the boat before the present owner. If it's in a marina I talk to the manager. At that point I should have a fairly good idea of whether or not I am interested enough in this particular boat to invest $500 or so in a survey.


Brokers and sellers hate it when you want to survey the boat before entering into a P&S. So it must be the right thing to do.
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  #98  
Old 09-03-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curm View Post
...Brokers and sellers hate it when you want to survey the boat before entering into a P&S. So it must be the right thing to do.
The surveyors must love you!!

But I couldn't disagree more with the advice.

Why would an owner let a stranger with whom they have no contractual relation send a surveyor aboard their vessel?

As an owner, that one would not even pass my giggle test.

Also, as a prospective purchaser, I would not rely on a surveyor's opinion to determine whether I wanted to place an offer on a boat. I would rely on my own inspection and research first. As likely as not, the answer will be that I don't want to make an offer. When and if I do make an offer that is accepted, I would then hire a surveyor to confirm the condition of the vessel and rule out the possibility of hidden defects as part of my caveat emptor due diligence.

If you are worried about the cost of travel, a good approach is to focus on boats in your geographic region that do not require expensive travel arrangements to inspect.

If your dream boat is in a distant location -- some surveyors will agree to do a quick "drive-by" for a minimal fee and let you know whether it might be worth the trip to see it for yourself (we also have a list of folks here at Sailnet who have agreed to do the same.)

Except in very unusual circumstances, I would not hire for a full survey sight-unseen, and of course not until a P&S agreement had been accepted by both buyer and seller.
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  #99  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRPollard View Post
The surveyors must love you!!


Why would an owner let a stranger with whom they have no contractual relation send a surveyor aboard their vessel?
Because the owner wants to sell the boat. A prospective buyer who is willing to pay for a survey is obviously interested.

The prospective buyer is also a "stranger with whom they have no contractual relation." Why is it ok to let one stranger inspect the boat but not another? The surveyor in this case is acting as the buyer's representative, just as a buyer's broker would be.

What the sellers really fear is a very knowledgable person examining the boat before some poor fish of a buyer has signed on the dotted line.

If the boat is in good condition, no owner should object.

Last edited by Curm; 09-03-2009 at 06:56 PM.
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  #100  
Old 09-03-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curm View Post
Because the owner wants to sell the boat. A prospective buyer who is willing to pay for a survey is obviously interested.

The prospective buyer is also a "stranger with whom they have no contractual relation." Why is it ok to let one stranger inspect the boat but not another? The surveyor in this case is acting as the buyer's representative, just as a buyer's broker would be.

What the sellers really fear is a very knowledgable person examining the boat before some poor fish of a buyer has signed on the dotted line.

If the boat is in good condition, no owner should object.
Precisely because my boat is in good condition, I would definitely object.

The distinction I am drawing is between a situation where you have a contract with a stranger -- one which stipulates the obligations of all parties to that contract -- and one where you have no relation whatsoever with that stranger.

It's a common misperception that signing "on the dotted line" binds the buyer to pay the offered and accepted price. In a standard boat purchase agreement, it does no such thing. The agreed price is subject to renegotiation or even rescission CONTINGENT UPON THE OUTCOME OF THE SURVEY.

So if you are worried that you will get stuck with some major problem that the surveyor finds, your concerns are misplaced. You can re-negotiate or walk away entirely at your discretion.

In fact, getting the survey in advance would likely place you at a disadvantage in the price negotiations. Without an agreed sales price, you have no figure (except the asking price!!) against which to place the surveyor's repair estimates for any shortcomings that are detected in survey.
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Pacific Seacraft Crealock 31 #62

NEVER CALLS CRUISINGDAD BACK....CAN"T TAKE THE ACCENT
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