forum wisdom (boat choice)

[nemier]

A few weeks back I posted here asking for advice on vessel choice and received excellent feedback which was greatly appreciated. Well after reading 3-4 hours every day on this forum (and others) for the last 30 days, I have actually picked up quite a bit of knowledge.

So, I now find my original thinking changing a bit...
Basically, I've discovered that I want a vessel which excels in light airs. I figure I'll get more out of it. I hate the engine.

This led me to think that perhaps a performance oriented vessel may be more suitable (for me). And this leads me to my questions.

1. Can performance oriented boats, like J-boats, make suitable distance cruising vessels?

2. Can anyone comment on a Viking 33, and the Ranger 33 for my purposes? I know nothing about them, but they initially seem to fit my purpose and budget.

[DrB]

J-Boats, and other performance boats, can be suitable distance cruising vessels for some models. I wouldn't extend cruise with a J-29, J-105 for example, but a J-109, J-122, etc. have some creature comforts for short extended cruises. If I were to go away for say a week plus on a regular basis, I'd probably look at a cruiser that had performance aspect more so than a performance boat that had some creature comforts.

DrB

[tommays]

Jboats makes both striped out race machines and super plush cruising vessels like the J65


Some small ones like the J28 had a very short production run BUT the Jboats sight has info on everthing they have made

[NOLAsailing]

Pssssst - get a J/30. Reasonably comfortable and you can do double digits off the breeze. Race/cruise ready around $30K.

[Valiente]

Apparently, I'm about to get quoted here, as a Viking 33 owner, but I will comment that the Viking and the Ranger are very similar by the numbers and as I've talked with a Ranger 33 owner, it seems they are similar in performance, as well.

Any good old boat with a light No.1 and a 15 foot J measurement on a 9,000 lb. hull 33 feet on deck is going to move in four knots of wind when other boats can't.

[farmboy]

This was the very informative response I got from Valiente when I PM'd him about the Viking 33:

The Viking 33 is a "racer-cruiser" in the sense of being more racer than cruiser, but being designed by C&C and built by Ontario Yachts means she's a tough old bird and you can safely head out in 40 knots well reefed down.

Here's a brief description:

Viking 33 - Used Sailboat Market in Canada

Think "skinny C&C 33" for reference. The narrow beam promises acceleration to windward, as does the very large J (15 feet). This boat does beam to close-hauled excellently in my experience, but the tall, narrow main means downwind runs are best accomplished with spinnaker, assy. or Code Zero foresails, or a No. 1 genoa poled out and preventers rigged on the main.

Realistically, the head room is six one, not six-two, although it's carried fairly far forward, a six-footer will hunch a bit having a pee in the basic head.

Accommodations, unless updated, are basic (foot pump water, icebox, frequently "old-school" 12 VDC boards) although there's plenty of space for two adults and two kids. The Atomic 4 motors, if treated well, are still serviceable, especially if given a rebuild. I rebuilt mine three years ago, and I think it's good for another 20.

Problems are in common with all C&C designs from this era: deck core rot, rotting stringers in the bilge, rotting mast step, leaky or crazed portlights and hatches, non-code "household" wiring (think 10 gauge Romex!). On the other hand, many have been renovated entirely...including having sliding hatches put in (the '73s and prior have "lids" only...annoying with cabin-top travellers!), so it pays to know what you want.

Most Vikings are 35 years old: freshwater ones CAN be OK, but need a close survey. The hulls are solid glass and not prone to blisters, but the decks don't have solid glass on the thru-deck bolts, meaning in many cases water intrusion and delamination. I did a shitload of drill-n-fill and custom-cut my own aluminum backing plates. I have confidence that my deck is stronger than "factory" now.

So if you like sailing fast to windward, or staying out when the Catalinas and Bendytoys head in, and if you pack lightly, the Viking's still a good choice, as it will do well in club racing with a fair bottom. I've also seen them fitted out for cruising with inverters, pressure water and even air conditioning, but to me there's a limit to how far you can turn a Porsche into a Winnebago, if you follow. Putting the batteries under the port settee near the mast is a good idea, however, as it gets weight out of the stern, but it means a longer copper run to the switchboard, unless you move that to the middle of the boat as well, which isn't a bad idea.

For us, it's always been about throwing a backpack full of clothes, a cooler of food and beer and getting out there. We prefer hank-ons, prefer the tiller (one person can easily handle all lines and helming once the main is up, and tiller autopilots are cheaper and work adequately) and we don't like running the engine much. When I overhauled the engine, I replaced the original 12 gallon Imp. gas tank with an 11 gallon U.S plastic Tempo tank (reducing the "range" to about 13 hours at 4.5 knots) because I wanted more space in the locker to hang lines! I haven't regretted this decision, as I still have trouble burning more than a tank per season anyway.

She's a sweet sailer, but definitely on the far side of middle age now. You can find a few for sale, but ignore the "improvements" and focus on the wet decks, condition of the bilge and the maintenance of the simple and well-suited Atomic 4s. I say well-suited because running a small diesel for 15 minutes until you head to wind and get the main up is stupid for a diesel due to basic thermal principles, but running a low-compression gas engine for 30 seconds or an hour makes no difference to it. Just keep the blower in good working order and keep the hose clamps tight in the fuel system!

Hope this helps.


A couple for sale. Too expensive in my opinion. I paid $23,000 in 1999 for a then 26-year old Hull #32.

Sailboats: 33' Ontario Yachts Viking 33 - Listing #: 2824

http://www.canadaboatshopper.com/ind...gs/page300.htm

Used Boats for Sale | A Boat Trader Directory of Yachts and Boats

Sailnet comments:

http://www.sailnet.com/boatchk/showp...p?product=1841

[BarryL]

Hello,

I don't have any real world experience here, so I can't personally comment on any of your questions. However, from what I have HEARD about long distance cruising, you will be taking a lot of gear with you. All that gear adds weight. And by the time you are done adding all that weight, your boat that moves so well in light air won't be moving all that well anymore.

There are certainly people that cruise in light boats like J boats. I recall reading a few blogs about that. Generally, they had to make compromises on things like water and fuel capability, battery capacity, etc.

Good luck,
Barry

[J36ZT]

Nemier,

Can a performance boat (ie race boat) be used for cruising? YES! Many of the older J-Boats are being used for that purpose. J-Boats, and many others, call them Performance Cruisers (see J-Boats' web site). As with many racers, you may want to do some modifying first...(you'd want to modify a Porsche or Ferrari before camping in it). Some models will require less modification than others. Remember, these boats were built with speed in mind not comfort. Above decks, the boats were laid out for a crew, and not single-handing which you're more apt to do when cruising. Generally, you'll be able to pick up an older racer cheaper than you might expect. However, some racers were designed only for racing and would require building most if not all of an interior. Can the boat be modified? YES! Sometimes though, it ends up not being practical.

Remember that racing gear is oriented to be light, used for a specific purpose, and racers use the gear closer to the end of tolerance (failure). Racing gear is almost always more expensive as well.

As far as sailing goes, racers are more tender (react quicker) than cruisers. Generally, a race boat will have a deeper draft. On the up side, racers are more maneuverable and you're almost always going to be sipping margaritas while the cruising boats are still lumbering along on their approaches to the marina/anchorage. One word of caution: An overloaded, heavy laden race boat may end up being slower than a cruising boat.

I bought a J/36 specifically for the purpose of cruising and living aboard. I haven't had to do much modifying. I did take out the "icebox" and modified the nav station in the process (put in refrigerator, microwave, inverter, additional house battery, replaced electrical panels). The boat already had a water system and tankless water heater. I did modify the shower drain so the waste water wouldn't just end up in the bilge. I'm procrastinating in putting in the below-deck autopilot. In refurbishing the mast, I replaced main and all three jib halyards, installed roller/furler, and ran main and one jib halyard back to the cockpit. I still have quite a bit of woodwork to repair/replace and more to sand and coat with finish, but I'm close to joining the cruising ranks.

I should mention that I've been living in my "Porsche" for over a year and a half now. The biggest drawback with a J/36 (for cruising) is that somebody decided to put the inboard diesel in the middle of the boat over the keel (good for performance and working on the engine, but very bad for floor space). The J/35's, replaced the J/36's, and subsequent J-Boats all have their engines in the aft part of the boat.

Skipper, J/36 "Zero Tolerance"

PS In 10-knots of wind she'll easily do 6 on any point of sail! In 5-knots, she's still cutting through the water.

[nemier]

J36ZT - Thanks! I got wood reading your post Thats exactly what I wanted to hear. I am definitely moving towards this idea more as time goes by. I've been looking for my next sailboat for a month now, and enjoying every minute of it.

Barry L - I take your point. My original idea ( a month ago) was to get a Cape George or a Shannon, which is built to take a ton of cruising crap. But my actual perfect plan would be to simply NOT take it. Enforced "take only what you need". I love the idea of a responsive light air boat and am willing to pay the price to get it. The Admiral will think I've finally lost it.

Valiente & Farmboy - Thanks for the info. I reread it four times taking it all in, I appreciate all the posts, thanks guys.

[Delirious]

Get yourself a copy of "Sensible Crusing: the Thoreau Approach" (Casey & Hackler)



Very good tips on keeping it simple and not letting percrived needs keep you from taking off.