Looking for some Criticism and Opinions....

[DonofPaw]

Criticism
Hello my relatively young wife and I are considering buying a boat to live aboard and to take some short cruises and month long trips in the summer. We may be moving to Boston, I'm still research the summer alternatives to Constitution.... I would love to hear what you think of this Gulfstar 50.... would it fit the bill for the next few years is cheap because it needs loads of work???? I know I would need a surveyor to give me the full picture but I would like to know what you think and what goes on in your minds when you look at a boat like this.... what would you do if you were in your mid to late twenties with little saved but moderate income potential, wife will be in school for a long time I think but I should be earning a bit more in the next year or two more if we live in Boston.... anyway would love some feedback.

1978 Gulfstar Center Cockpit Ketch Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Thanks
Don

[tommays]

At the ripe old age of 52 with a good enough income to have put my children through collage without going into dept it is way of when i could afford to spend in upkeep even if it was perfect when it became mine

[Faster]

You asked for criticism... Honestly, this is a WHOLE lot of boat and in perfect condition would be a handful for a beginner.... As a project it would be overwhelming.

The annual costs to maintain and support a boat like this would be very difficult to handle on a "moderate" single income even with no other obligations.

You are young enough that you needn't rush into things. Buy an affordable ($10-20K) 25-30 footer, learn the ropes at minimal financial risk and exposure. If you quickly become proficient, then you might think of moving on. Many on this board, including myself, have decades of experience. Relatively few of us either desire or wish to maintain/handle a boat that size. Costs increase exponentially with size - a 50 footer will cost at least 4xs more than a 25 footer for upkeep and other annual costs.

If you've grown up sailing and have experience in such a vessel, then that's a bit different, but the financial realities remain...

my $.02 (CDN, btw, so worth even less this week...)

[DonofPaw]

Hmm would a smaller Gulfstar seem more appropriate? The idea really is to live aboard so we wouldn't have a regular mortgage to pay, we would also want something which would allow us to at least start a family aboard. What are your thoughts on the boat in general? I mean what goes on in your head when you think about a boat like that besides the costs of hauling launching painting...

[GreatWhite]

There are costs to consider for sure, a fifty foot boat will cost a lot more than a smaller boat. I see that you have a moderate income so I think that would present a challenge. You could live aboard this boat with kids, why not start smaller and when the kids come along upgrade then. Docking a 50 foot boat is certainly more of a challenge than docking a 30 foot boat. For live aboard you might what something bigger than 25-30 feet though even with two of you, IMHO.

[sailingdog]

Unless you've got a pretty big discretionary budget for boat stuff... I'd highly recommend you look at smaller boats. The costs of a 50' boat are probably ten times that of a 30' boat, and three-to-four times that of a 40' boat. Add in the fact that this boat isn't in solid shape to begin with, your costs are going to be astronomical. BTW, a 50' boat new, costs somewhere in the neighborhood of $500,000 or more... and this boat is going for only 15% or so of that... so my guess is that it must be in really rough shape.

As a rule, it is far less expensive to buy a boat that is in good shape than it is to re-furbish the same boat that was bought cheap and in need of a lot of work.

If I were you, I'd highly recommend looking at a 35-37' boat that is in pretty decent shape. A 35-37' boat is going to be big enough for two people to live on, small enough to afford and to sail singlehanded. BTW, when you're cruising as a couple, you're generally sailing singlehanded most of the time, since the other will often be sleeping, cooking, etc.

BTW, you could go smaller than 35', but I think it'd be awfully tight for two people living aboard full-time. It has been done. There's a blog about a couple who lived on an Alberg 30, with their toddler, We Live On A Boat is Strathgowan's blog. They've since moved up to a larger boat, and have a daughter now too.

Also, slips for boats over 40' are much more difficult to come by and much more expensive than slips for boats under 40'.

Some good boats to look at are the Tartan 37, Canadian Sailcraft 36T, Pearson 36, C&C 38, etc.

YMMV.

[seabreeze_97]

Ahhhh, to be in my 20's again. Forget the house....wife??? You're kidding right? Buy a 40+ sailboat and live. Pooof! Okay, I'm awake now.

Take ANY way you manage to parse down the expenses, double your estimate (at least) and plan on every sort of issue, problem, and additional expense getting in the way. Some time down the road, when you're out cruising and enjoying the moment, you can tell yourself you might've been too pessimistic. However, if you're still looking for your dreams, but can't see them because there's a land-locked, or otherwise not-ready-for primetime sailboat in the way, at least you'll have planned for it.

[sailingdog]

Also, one thing to consider, since you're planning on living aboard the boat. What happens if you have to leave the boat so they can do repairs... do you have a contingency plan for that? With a 50' boat, you probably won't have the money to have any contingency options... with a smaller boat, you might. Getting too big a boat is often the worst mistake you can make. It is basically how we got into the financial mess this country is in right now—too many people bought houses way too big for them—got overextended and had to lose their shirts on the house or default. Same thing often happens with boats...and that's why so many bank owned boats are on the market right now—don't do that to yourself and your wife.

[kd3pc]

SD and others, beg to differ here...our Sabre 38 was a bit small for the two of us. SO we sold her last Dec, and made a few bucks. Bought a Hunter 42 in August and are moving aboard this weekend.

If one can afford the boat, and live with out the stuff and still live below your means to plan for a future. Go for it. It will be an adventure.

As dog mentions, here we disagree...people living way above their means are the reason we are in this mess, have caused some issues with availability, loans, and such.

BTW given our recent house sale and boat purchase, if you do not have good and I mean good credit. Don't bother as the rules have changed, maybe for the long term. I am saying don't expect the loan on either a house or a boat to be on the same terms they were a year ago.

I would guess (I work for a Boston based Co) that boat payment and slippage somewhere other than downtown will be far less than a house payment any where commuting distance. Even Plymouth and the west burbs are quite pricey for "starter" homes.

Don do your homework, make sure you get a survey, and enjoy the adventure.

dave

[sailingdog]

KD3PC-

What you require for living space may be significantly more than what DonofPaw requires. He's probably younger than you and I've found that younger people often can make do with less space than people who are used to having the large house and summer home and all the creature comforts... I guess a lot of it depends on what Don's priority is.

IF space is a priority...he should not be considering living aboard if his budget is $80,000 or so, as the price of the Gulfstar suggests. If living aboard a boat and sailing is his priority, and he has a budget of about $80,000, then getting a 35' boat in good shape will probably leave him a bit to upgrade/refit the boat with.