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windship 08-25-2002 09:15 AM

High ballast to displacement ratios
 
One of the boats I''m considering is an Endeavour 38. She has a fifty-fifty ballast to displacement ratio. (Here''s one for you Jeff)What''s the low-down on this?

Dennis

JeffH 08-25-2002 05:39 PM

High ballast to displacement ratios
 
I am not sure waht I think about that. 17,600 lbs is not that heavy for a 38 foot cruising boat. Achieving that kind of ballast ratio with proper structural design in a moderate weight cruiser is just not that easy. Stripped out racers like America''s Cup boats bearly achieve 50% ballast ratios. Even though the 38''s were cored I would be quite suspicious of that ratio.

Most cruising yachts have a ballast ratio in the 30% to 40% with many very respected cruising boats having ratios as low as a 30% or so. Even though Johann Valentijn, the designer of the 38 was a senior designer with Sparkman and Stephens and had worked on America''s Cup campaigns, I question whether even he could achieve proper structure, and adequate capacities with that kind of ballast ratio in a cruiser.

I saw that there is a couple 38''s on Yachtworld that do show 8600 lbs of ballast with a displacement of 17600 lbs. Obviously that is 49% ratio. While I am not sure that the 8600 lbs, (I have an piece of Endeavour literature that shows 7600 lbs ballast but I am not sure that it is for the 38 in question. 7600 lbs would result in a ratio of 43% which is still a pretty respectibly high ratio. That is in the range of heavily ballasted and pretty Spartan interior race boats of that era.)

All of that aside, if the 38 does have a 50% ratio it should be reasonably stable and offer a reasonable motion comfort. Both will be compromised a little by the shoal draft of the Endeavour 38. Endeavour used low density ballasts on their earlier boats but I do not know what type of ballast was used on the 38. With the 38''s very shallow draft of 4''-11" on a 38 footer a large ballast ratio, even if it is in low density ballast, would be very welcome.

My experience with Endeavours suggests that by the mid 1980''s the build quality of these boats had gotten substantially better as had the Valentijn and Kelly designed hulls and rigs.

That''s about it for me.
Jeff

windship 08-25-2002 09:10 PM

High ballast to displacement ratios
 
Jeff,
Thank you.
We share the same suspitions in regards to the build quality.
Thanks for the info on the designer. I didn''t know that.
I don''t think I would say her draft is ''very'' shallow.Mabey shallow but not to the extreme.
Thanx again,

Dennis

JeffH 08-26-2002 03:41 AM

High ballast to displacement ratios
 
I think that 5 feet of draft on a 38 footer, in the absense of a K/Cb or bulb, Scheel or wing keel, is a very shallow draft. Normally I think of a range of 5''6 to 6''0 being about the minimum for a good preforming, offshore capable, conventional keel 38 footer. Obviously these deeper drafts can be problematic in some venues such as the Florida West Coast where these boats originate.

Jeff

JohnDrake 08-26-2002 06:06 AM

High ballast to displacement ratios
 
Hi Guys

Just got back from a wonderful weekend sailing my 38 footer. It has a true 50% ballast ratio and a 4''6" draft with a K/CB hull.

She is a Wauquiez Hood 38, a Ted Hood design, built by Wauquiez. I could not be happier with her performance and construction.

We had quite light air this weekend but she moved along surprisingly fast...of course not like a true light performance racer but much better than expected even in 3-4 knts apparent.

I can well attest to her motion comfort and sea kindly ride. These boat are said to be tender, but I have not observed that and when at 15 degrees heel, she locks in and goes for it. I am very pleased with how well balanced she is and her near phenominal ability to track well with the helm unattended. This latter point is a joy in cruising. When there is the need, the board is easily cranked down eliminating any side slippage at low speed and she can point to 30 degrees apparent wind even w/o the board.

Down below, she is very yacht like. Wonderful joinery and nicely laid out with a large Vee berth and ample aft quarter cabin.

I can see your attraction to the Endeavour. They have nice cabin layouts for weekending at the dock. My dock neighbor had a very difficult time selling his because of the wet hull coring. Practical Sailor has a review on them, but I will save you the trouble and just summarize by saying it was less than glowing.

I, however, am absolutely glowing over this boat.

My best to all, and thanks again to Jeff for his terrific advice.

John

JohnDrake 08-26-2002 06:06 AM

High ballast to displacement ratios
 
Hi Guys

Just got back from a wonderful weekend sailing my 38 footer. It has a true 50% ballast ratio and a 4''6" draft with a K/CB hull.

She is a Wauquiez Hood 38, a Ted Hood design, built by Wauquiez. I could not be happier with her performance and construction.

We had quite light air this weekend but she moved along surprisingly fast...of course not like a true light performance racer but much better than expected even in 3-4 knts apparent.

I can well attest to her motion comfort and sea kindly ride. These boat are said to be tender, but I have not observed that and when at 15 degrees heel, she locks in and goes for it. I am very pleased with how well balanced she is and her near phenominal ability to track well with the helm unattended. This latter point is a joy in cruising. When there is the need, the board is easily cranked down eliminating any side slippage at low speed and she can point to 30 degrees apparent wind even w/o the board.

Down below, she is very yacht like. Wonderful joinery and nicely laid out with a large Vee berth and ample aft quarter cabin.

I can see your attraction to the Endeavour. They have nice cabin layouts for weekending at the dock. My dock neighbor had a very difficult time selling his because of the wet hull coring. Practical Sailor has a review on them, but I will save you the trouble and just summarize by saying it was less than glowing.

I, however, am absolutely glowing over this boat.

My best to all, and thanks again to Jeff for his terrific advice.

John

DuaneIsing 08-26-2002 07:36 AM

High ballast to displacement ratios
 
JohnDrake,

I sent you a SailNet message re your boat. Check there or email me at deising@aol.com

Thanks,
Duane


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