Why not a Beneteau?

[blt2ski]

There are NO "ugly fat pig" boats! There are "OLD SHOE" boats! The 36.7 does not fit into the OLD shoe category! That is one that is reasonably capable of going offshore etc! The first series, at least at one time, foot for foot were better built than the oceanus versions.

If you do like that boat, look for an older 40.7, a bit longer, probably pricier but may have more room etc for you needs. Also a J37 and J40, 120, 122 have similar lines abilities too, with speed and have cruised the world too, doing ocean passages.

If you look at Jeanneaus, look at the SO37 or if you can find an SF version, a bit more keel depth and Sail area. but the hulls are the same. A better rigging setup too as far as what is there for sailing too. IE bigger winches in many cases too.

Not sure where you are headed too, but many boats that will work depending upon what "style" of boat you like.

marty

[bubb2]

Originally Posted by blt2ski

The first series, at least at one time, foot for foot were better built than the oceanus versions.

marty

I heard that for years! However, after talking to Beneteau and doing some checking, Both series start out with the same hull. It is the the topsides, the interior, and rig that make them different.

My Ocean's has hand holds running down both sides of the cabin.

I realize that some might want to argue my point and they would be the ones to say that GMC's are better trucks then Chevy's. They both come down the same assembly line.

[Faster]

Our friends have cruised a 36.7 in the Caribbean each winter since 2003.. great boat for spirited island hopping... but they (just a couple) live a pretty spare lifestyle ashore and asea. We've joined them for a couple of weeks several times, sometimes with 4, making it 6 aboard for that time (but no kids so far)

Definitely a nice handling boat - but it is a bit spartan.

[soulfinger]

One more thing...if the big three (C, H, & B) are really the worst things out there, we're still way ahead of the curve compared to the powerboaters. It seems even a poorly built new sailboat is about as good as a mid-range powerboat.

[Bene505]

All this talk of Beneteaus, I can't wait to sail ours. (We are still on the hard.)

[slap]

Originally Posted by bubb2

I heard that for years! However, after talking to Beneteau and doing some checking, Both series start out with the same hull. It is the the topsides, the interior, and rig that make them different.

My Ocean's has hand holds running down both sides of the cabin.

I realize that some might want to argue my point and they would be the ones to say that GMC's are better trucks then Chevy's. They both come down the same assembly line.

Only at most a couple of the Firsts shared the same hull shape as the regular series. And even if they share the same hull shape, they can have significantly different layups used in their construction. Additional details can be bulkhead attachment and the hull-deck joint reinforcement. As an example, someone tried to race a Beneteau 393 offshore, in a race that with a First 40.7 would have been no problem.

During 3 days of 30 to 40 knots on the nose and reefed, the babystay started to pull the deck up and craze all the gel coat around its chainplate and the interior liner for the forward head was so loose the mirror in the head broke. On arrival at the finish, it was noticed that the rudder stock tube was delaminating from the hull, the quarter berth molding had separated from the aft lazarette bulkhead i.e. the hull had twisted in the predominantly reaching conditions (under 12 to 15 knots of wind). On the trip back, it was noticed that between every bolt in the toe rail from the shrouds to the bow, the aluminum was bent upwards 4mm and separated from the deck as if the bow had been bent upwards, thereby compressing the distance between the bolts. i.e. the hull is very soft. Now you need to remember: this was a relatively new boat that had only cruised in sheltered water previously and there were only 3 days out of 17 with wind over 15 knots !!! "A" Rated to force 8 and above ..yeah right. The part that said "vessel largely self sufficient" should have said "occupants better be self sufficient"

This is from a thread: beneteau 373 - Sailing Anarchy Forums

[bubb2]

slap, The 393 is a newer model. When I bought my Bennie new 10 years ago. I went through this same Issue, As I wanted the answer for my self. Like I said the hulls started out the same (back then) it was the rig and interior and topside that made them different. If things have changed I am unaware of it.

[slap]

Originally Posted by bubb2

slap, The 393 is a newer model. When I bought my Bennie new 10 years ago. I went through this same Issue, As I wanted the answer for my self. Like I said the hulls started out the same (back then) it was the rig and interior and topside that made them different. If things have changed I am unaware of it.

From what I can tell, it is only one or two models in the 90's where they shared the same hull shape. That does not mean they shared the same laminate schedule or structural reinforcements. Upping it to the level required for an offshore capable racing boat adds costs that Beneteau often has not been willing to do for their cruising line of boats.

Another difference between the First series and the other Beneteaus is the sizing of the hardware - the First series uses larger winches, blocks, etc.

[blt2ski]

Slap,

I am going to swag that bubb is not in reality saying the hull's them selves are the same, but that the layup etc is the same! I believe most of us, even the dumber ones realize that the first series boats have different hull shapes etc than the Oceanus. Jeanneau on the otherhand, did use the same hull, deck etc for their race version, but but a deeper keep, typically of lead vs steel, taller mast, better upgraded deck gear etc for the Sunfast version vs the Sun Odysses versions. Some models of the "Performance" versions also have some gear upgraded etc, but do have deeper keels of steel and a taller larger rig.

Marty

[danielgoldberg]

Originally Posted by slap

Only at most a couple of the Firsts shared the same hull shape as the regular series. And even if they share the same hull shape, they can have significantly different layups used in their construction. Additional details can be bulkhead attachment and the hull-deck joint reinforcement. As an example, someone tried to race a Beneteau 393 offshore, in a race that with a First 40.7 would have been no problem.

During 3 days of 30 to 40 knots on the nose and reefed, the babystay started to pull the deck up and craze all the gel coat around its chainplate and the interior liner for the forward head was so loose the mirror in the head broke. On arrival at the finish, it was noticed that the rudder stock tube was delaminating from the hull, the quarter berth molding had separated from the aft lazarette bulkhead i.e. the hull had twisted in the predominantly reaching conditions (under 12 to 15 knots of wind). On the trip back, it was noticed that between every bolt in the toe rail from the shrouds to the bow, the aluminum was bent upwards 4mm and separated from the deck as if the bow had been bent upwards, thereby compressing the distance between the bolts. i.e. the hull is very soft. Now you need to remember: this was a relatively new boat that had only cruised in sheltered water previously and there were only 3 days out of 17 with wind over 15 knots !!! "A" Rated to force 8 and above ..yeah right. The part that said "vessel largely self sufficient" should have said "occupants better be self sufficient"

This is from a thread: beneteau 373 - Sailing Anarchy Forums

I'm not going to pick a fight with you, but this supposed 393 and offshore race story you rely upon, which was it, 3 days of 30 to 40 knot winds on the nose, 3 days of reaching in under 12 to 15 knots of wind, or 3 days out of 17 with wind over 15 knots? You need to figure out which set of conditions you are going to posit for your story. I have no problem with folks criticizing boats, but at least make your anecdote facially plausible.

And by the way, if you think a mass production company like Beneteau is going to use multiple layup or production methods, you are gravely mistaken. The hulls are built the same way. Different lines, different fit out, etc., but the hulls are built on the same line with the same method.

I also want to note something else. I say this not to defend Beneteaus blindly or argue that they are the most stoutly built boats ever. Not at all, and if you've read my posts you'll know that. That said, why would anyone take a stock Beneteau 393 and race it 2600 miles through Bass Straight (assuming this story even is true, which I have my doubts)? But of course, this person claims it was not a stock Beneteau. That is, they changed the rig, made it more powerful (did they change the rigging to support that increase is power, reinforce the chainplates, anything?), made unspecified structural changes, and did all sorts of other stuff. No one knows if they did a decent job of course. Nor does anyone know if they checked with the architect or anyone else, or did any calculations or analysis at all, to see if what they were doing would be OK from a design perspective. Instead, we have a fairly naked post about a group of guys who made fundamental changes to the sailplan by loading it up, then made all kinds of DIY structural modifications, sail the boat in an offshore event for which the boat was not designed, and then blame the original manufacturer when the boat falls apart??? That's like the child who murders his parents and then begs for forgiveness because he's an orphan.