Owning a Boat is EXPENSIVE!

[smackdaddy]

Cap'nFred - hang in there dude. At least you came back to address to the "points" others have made. That shows guts. Welcome to Sailnet.

I asked earlier - but what are the typical rough costs of chartering so that an apples-to-apples comparison can be made here?

[xort]

Originally Posted by bubb2

MAY THE XORT BE WITH YOU

And with you too my fellow hole-in-the-water owner!

[knothead]

CaptainFredGreenfield,
You made a generalization. And, like most generalizations, it's applicable sometimes, and sometimes, not so much.
Everyone has a different story. I have seen a lot of heartbreaking examples of people making unwise choices and paying for it later. But I've seen some unlikely success stories too.
Thank you for sharing your experience and the conclusions that you've drawn from it.
But keep in mind, everyone has different standards, expectations and abilities. Don't try to cover everyone with the same blanket.

[sailingdog]

Considering that the Internet has been around in some form for a long time, as it developed from ARPAnet... which I played on back in the 1980s... but Mosaic, the first web browser was not developed until 1992, and not in popular distribution until probably 1994, when it was renamed Netscape Navigator IIRC.... I doubt any claims of websites or blogging from prior to 1995 or so.

BTW, the first Windows based OS to have a decent web browsng capability was Windows 95... and not around prior to 1995.

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Eh, painkiller?
Anyone who claims to have been blogging, much less running a web site of any kind in 1992, must be Al Gore in drag.

1992? Internet? Ahuh, sure, plenty of private access and sites on the Internet in 1992.

[TxLnghrn]

Originally Posted by CaptainFredGreenfield

Michael, thank you for responding. I am not an accountant, I am a sailor. I never said I was a CPA. In fact I prequalified my numbers by saying they are based on my experience alone, and you can feel free to discount by as much as you believe is necessary. I completely respect that when it comes to write-offs and taxes you do an hide expenses for hobbies or legitamite expenses if you are in a marine-related business and can do so. You can write-off depreciation. That assumes that you have the income that you need to write off, otherwise if all it does is contribute to your NOL then you might consider that the cash before taxes is a little more valuable than continuing to add to a NOL by owning a boat that is an expense pit. But I am not a CPA, thats for you and them to figure out. But your comment and how you deal with your taxes has nothing to do with the cost it takes to own your boat. And in this economy I seriously doubt most people are looking for more write-offs!

Fred

Fred,

Nor am I an accountant. I mentioned the potential tax opportunities as an aside. The majority of my post dealt with a faulty premise in your original assumptions re: the cost of ownership. Yes boat ownership is costly, but these costs can be mitigated and/or justified if we compare them to the cost of chartering or for that matter therapy.
I agree with you that a neglected boat is a waste, I have said this in another post. If you indeed came to Sailnet with the intent to help educate future boat owners, thank-you and welcome to Sailnet. I'm sure you will find this community receptive and educational. But if you came with the intent of boosting your blog hits....You can see where that path will take you from the previous responses.

Michael

[CaptainFredGreenfield]

Originally Posted by sailingdog

Goes like a bat out of hell, sails flat—even in nastier conditions...
BTW, welcome to sailnet... and I'd highly recommend you read the POST in my signature to help you get the most out of your time here. It has tips on searching sailnet, writing a good post, etc...

Wow! I have been on one before, a long time ago. Very interesting, I just read your link. Also, have read your sig post before, certainly understand and am trying to not break any rules here. That thread is famous, its in every newbie's thread!

Originally Posted by terryjoe

I am not sure who you are trying to convince that owning a boat is expensive. It is! I believe your figuring might somewhat skewed though.

...

My point is that I was aware that my boat was going to cost me more then I expected at the begining no matter how much research I did before buying it. All of people I have met have told me it was just a hole in the water that I would throw money into. However, I feel it makes it all worthwhile when I am out on the boat and see a fantastic sunset or make new friends.

You just answered your own question I wanted to let youngins like you were before you bought your boat know that it is indeed, very expensive relatively, to keep. You are the proof that someone who is well aware of this fact, doesn't lose his dream, he just understands going in close to how much he's going to cost. So he treasures those sunsets and magical moments. He doesn't let a good sailing day go by without finding some way to get down to his sailboat. That's what I was and am going for... to the person who doesn't get it, it will only like a giant hole in the water to pour money into, as I've seen time and again.

Originally Posted by djodenda

The reality is that boat ownership isn't expensive or inexpensive, it's PRICELESS. I can't imagine being without one.

David

Thank you David. Great quote.

Originally Posted by ChuckA

There obviously will be some variability in the arithmetic, but I get Fred's basic point. The price of the boat ain't the cost. ... I stick with the old school economic theory of spending less than I make, and it will be OK.

Happy New Year!
Chuck

Thanks Chuck Yes, that is exactly my point. Happy new year to you too, hope you have a prosperous and great sailing 2009

Originally Posted by Calabego

Excellent thread. What started out to be a an infomercial-blog lure turned out to be some very heartfelt comments about the benefits of boat ownership that we well...don't really take for granted, IF we consider the costs, but sure do enjoy over fighting for the charter table scraps during peak vacation times. I'm afraid I have to agree with everyone who shared the justifications for the why's of their dream.

Do I own ? Yes. Paid cash, VERY affordable slippage, and maintenance.
She's a small boat, won't be making any transpacs, and IS available everyday, rain or shine, planned, or on short notice and can and does serve as a comfortable weekender. She's one year younger than I am, but she's in better shape.
Will I charter? Yes, once a year in the US/BVI's and at least once a year in the San Juans (although trailering my baby up there hasn't been ruled out) until I pull the trigger on my 10 year plan and acquire my own 36'-46' cruiser and pay transient fees and the occasional passage fees to move her through the canal while I cruise until she won't float anymore.

Thank you, although on the first line, I posted the whole article here, I didn't make anybody click on my blog at all, so I don't know what more I could have done to make it less "infomercial"-like?

But the rest of your post is exactly why I wrote the piece. YOU are charting a good course to not bite off more than you can chew nor treading water just trying to afford a boat in a slip. I really appreciate that you are doing as I mentioned as an example... I hope you have some wonderful charters! I've sailed through the canal with friends before... it was a lot different than I imagined... but thats a topic for a whole nother post.

Originally Posted by CalebD

I say cut old Capt. Fred some slack. His basic premise is true: boats are expensive. This is not news to most everyone here though.
Happy New Year.

Thank you thank you I think its interesting that some are reacting so strongly to it but I understand some of the thought that I am "ruining" peoples dreams with this. I don't believe thats true and if you see the comments from a couple of the posters in quotes above I think people would see that there is a lot of value in knowing in what you're getting into. terryjoe is a sailor that was told that boats are a money bit. He changed his approach, he didn't cancel his dream. I think thats enough proof for me. Have a happy new year to you too

Originally Posted by seawitch1906

I have no idea what is the reason dear "captain" to post this accounting jewel of yours ...?
try to steer away anyone who dreaming to go sailing?
no one here ever purchased a boat for any rational reason BUT FOR THE LOVE of this wonderful lifestyle ..
why rain an our parade ?

with your SO detailed summary .. you should perhaps paddle on other site like .. "accountant central," or "life is misery " but please stop poring this cold water on our neck ...

glass is all empty for you all the time? I feel sorry for you , and your "revelation" is pointless at least here it is.
NO.... sailing is not expensive .. missed out on life IS

Hi seawitch. No, none of that is accurate, but thanks for posting.

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"Its meant to provide some " traffic to Fred's web site, is all it is.

He forgot that most of us earn big bucks from sponsors for our boats, only fools SPEND money on sailing. Every time that big PEPSI logo on my spinnaker makes it onto a TV spot, KA-CHING, another four-figure deposit hits my offshore account.



Beats all hell out of the pennies per hit that Fred gets for the ads on his web site.

The ads, I hope, will pay for the hosting. They aren't yet. If you notice, I posted the ENTIRE article here, and didn't make anyone click on anything. You don't want to come to my blog, don't, I guess you don't need my advice, but thanks for posting here all the same.

Originally Posted by bljones

Funny that this thread came up, as I am just tallying up my boat expenses for our first year of ownership. My numbers are a little different from yours- size does matter.

Indeed it does, and thank you for posting that breakdown. Everyone's cost is going to be different based on location, condition of the boat when purchased, whether your slip has luxuries or is basically some floating wood with a cleat (my marina Im currently in is great - showers, store, secured, etc).

Originally Posted by bljones

My point is, sailing is as expensive as you want to make it. ... However, sense and sailing rarely seem to collide in the same sentence.

True on both counts. Thanks.

Originally Posted by painkiller

I just went over to Capt. Fred's blog, and I found this entry:

Not cool. And here's another one:

Can you believe this guy?? And it goes back further, too:

You need to stop taking so many painkillers.

Originally Posted by GaryHLucas

I have a boat I paid $6500 for, that originally cost $36,000 but to buy her new today would cost about $80,000. Funny thing is, everything I buy, from the slip to parts is priced for the $80,000 boat!

That's an EXCELLENT POINT, and again, probably something you didn't count on going in. But I buy almost everything I can used, so I don't run into that problem much. I wish I had put that in the article. What kind of a boat did you buy?

Originally Posted by smackdaddy

Cap'nFred - hang in there dude. At least you came back to address to the "points" others have made. That shows guts. Welcome to Sailnet.

I asked earlier - but what are the typical rough costs of chartering so that an apples-to-apples comparison can be made here?

Thank you!

I'm working on an article that tries to lay that out.

In short, it completely depends on where you want to go. You have to factor in transportation, boat size, cost-of-living, regional pricing structure, bareboat or not, etc. Lots to consider. I promise to post it here and hopefully some have their own cost breakdowns to add or they have good advice on where to get a charter.

----

By the way, I don't see it anymore but for the guy who said I was selling something, I'm not. I built the 74 footer you see in my avatar from scratch and chartered her out of Long Beach and Newport, but I haven't been in that business for 30 years nor do I want to be. I do see it to be a bargain though in the longrun for those that can afford the charter or could split it with someone.

Thanks again, looking forward to many more discussions!

[wolfshead13]

Originally Posted by CaptainFredGreenfield

Hey, I want to know more about that Telstar in your sig!

Regarding your post...

I think I said plainly what my point was above. I want for dreamers and people reading my advice blog to prepare themselves before they commit to their dream and have it go upside down quickly, like I see all the time in SoCal marinas. I've seen it for decades... its always the same story: they don't understand the costs or the commitment and they bail within a year or two, especially when the wife starts complaining about her mall money going to waste on their "mistress".

.

Besides normal maintence my annual costs are $2200.00 cdn in slip and starage fees and last year fuel was way up, it actually cost $45.00 cdn to get in and out of the marina (we have a power in and out only rule). Normal maintence came in at less than my jeep for a year. Quite acceptable to both the wife and myself since she always knows where to find me when the ice is off the lake and when she wants a getaway I'm always up for it.

[thesnort]

I hope you stick around, Fred. Your first post has become an instant classic. Looking forward to an encore.

[SJ34]

I know the boat is expensive, I'm the one writing the checks. I just need to keep the admiral from figuring that out. SO KNOCK IT OFF!!!

[camaraderie]

My take on this is that Capn' Fred is a nice ol' guy with a fair amount of experience in and around boats and is NOT looking to profit from his website but merely to share his own opinions and experience with others out of a desire to be helpful. The ads on his blog are simply wordpress's way of making money.
I find some of his opinions to be way off base based on my own experience...but that is why we argue and post here. Others I heartily agree with.
Welcome Fred.