My Secrets to Smart Boat Negotiation - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 01-13-2009
CaptainFredGreenfield's Avatar
Dodging Coconuts
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 31
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
CaptainFredGreenfield is on a distinguished road
Cool My Secrets to Smart Boat Buying

O.K., so you have looked at your 100 prospective boats. You have already found the slip where the boat is going right? You have picked 10 boats that are candidates, and then further narrowed that down to 5. You’re ready to call and make some offers.

Step 1 - Get into the “Zone”

Now, what you will read here is based on the fact that you want all of these boats, but will of course, only buy one. This assumes you have no issue with making multiple unofficial offers at the same time, and then only accepting the best deal and backing out of the rest.

Example: “If I were to make a serious offer of X $ cash, would we be doing business. That offer, of course would be accompanied by a non refundable deposit based on You being able to produce a clear title, and you putting in writing the items (if any) you promised.” This, in my opinion, is the best way to buy any large ticket item.

Like a shark circling a school of fish you are just making sure that you are not wasting your time, or the seller is not at a figure that doesn’t have a chance of flying with you. Think of stacks of hundred dollar bills setting on the table. If you only are able to save one stack of hundreds, It is worth asking. In the end, the sellers should know NO boat is sold until a check comes through. Similarly, a seller needs to know that he has a serious buyer. (never make a final offer on a boat you haven’t looked at!) There is only one way to accomplish that. If you want to make unofficial offers one at a time, you are welcome to, but this article won’t apply to you. But note, you should ONLY ever make an offer (with a deposit) on a boat when you have money to back it up and you would be willing to take the deal. Don’t waste anyone’s time… the seller has a life too, and while they may enjoy talking about their boat and showing it, they are doing so because they have to to sell it, most likely not because they want to make new friends to chat about boats with.

Step 2 - Make the Offer

So now you’re ready. Make steal-of-the-century type offers on all of them.

Several of your unofficial offers (Remember don’t fall into a trap and agree that you will buy any boat if your first unofficial offer is accepted) You are merely politely “WOODJATAKING” (would-ya-take-ing) the owners to determine where their bottom line is. Sort of like poking a snake with a stick. If any of your unofficial, hat in hand, offers have been been unofficially accepted, the game is getting serious.

If one boat in particular appears to be the one, be polite enough to diffuse the close contenders, at least temporarily by phone. Putting them on hold will hopefully keep the door open in case the one with the most potential gets away from you. I can’t tell you which boat is best for you, You will need to make the final decision based on the judging points you feel are most important. Hopefully some articles here on sailingandboatingadvice.com will help you choose.

If you are starting at an affordable level, you can learn from this stepping stone boat. If you are buying right, you can sell right and step up to a bigger better boat… without financial disaster! Sleep on your final decision. Then get your checkbook out and do the deed. Once you’ve made the commitment, don’t think about it - you’ve researched the market, you’ve decided on the boat you want - subject to a survey, and sea trial if needed - buy the boat and be happy!

Step 3 - Financing and Other Considerations

If your purchase depends on financing, have your financing pre-approved and move quickly. You may be trying to get financing, and another buyer may come along with the cash and steal it if you can’t move quick enough. If you have significant other, I can only advise you to do whatever you do with other big money decisions. When it comes to toys, I am a “Damn the torpedoes!” type of guy, so when I make my decisions, if the amounts of money they and their upkeep and maintenance represent is not a major threat to my financial well being, and if I can do it with cash, and if it is with funds that have been generated from some other toy I have bought and sold (recently). I figure, why not take a chance? If I don’t like it, I can always just sell it. Even if I donate this thing to a non profit, how bad can it hurt me?

On the other hand if I have a significant other, I don’t need the aggravation of daily reminders of my stupidity… so when you get ready to buy, only you know whether this thing will use funds that entitle your spouse (if you have one) to blast you daily about your selfish deed.

Step 4 - The Final Step - Move Quickly and Notes

Buy the boat. Get the title. Take immediate possession and put it in a slip. Insure it and do all of the necessary paperwork. Or if you’re lucky, it works for you to simply assume the slip that the boat is currently sitting in. Do an immediate checklist of everything that needs to be fixed. This is because the things that are fresh in your mind as “issues” will begin to fade as you become more comfortable with the boat. Obvious things that are broken may not, but it helps to have everything in a list. Once this is done, relax a little. You’ve taken possession. She’s yours… and it’s the start of a long passage to far off places, exploration of near by wonders, afternoon beer can races, or maybe, a short term until you find another boat. That’s one of the great joys of buying a boat - she’ll take you anywhere or maybe she’s not for you - let your mind race and enjoy the journey!

Anyone have any thoughts to add?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
My Sailing Advice, Tips, Tutorials Blog:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by CaptainFredGreenfield; 01-13-2009 at 04:41 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 01-13-2009
bljones's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: South Coast Ontario
Posts: 8,178
Thanks: 32
Thanked 72 Times in 65 Posts
Rep Power: 8
bljones has a spectacular aura about bljones has a spectacular aura about
you left an important phrase out of your "wouldjatake" discussion: "subject to satisfactory survey and sea trial."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 01-13-2009
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 22
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
MarthaT is on a distinguished road
Good write up, some good thoughts in there

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 01-13-2009
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,174
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 14
k1vsk will become famous soon enough
I guess if a seller knew you were bidding on multiple boats simultaneously, he/she might take you less serious than you'd prefer or may rather deal with someone who is more focused. I know that I'd personally rather deal with someone interested in my boat more so than who makes the best deal.
One other thing which strikes me is that buying a boat is very much an emotional decision as compared with being strictly economic and your scenario sounds more like someone in the used car wholesale business than someone looking for a boat.
Also, don't know what you mean by "diffusing the contenders" - is that a euphemism for undermining an otherwise legitimate potential buyer?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 01-13-2009
CaptainFredGreenfield's Avatar
Dodging Coconuts
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 31
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
CaptainFredGreenfield is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by bljones View Post
you left an important phrase out of your "wouldjatake" discussion: "subject to satisfactory survey and sea trial."
I made the comment at the end of the Step 2 part:

" Once you’ve made the commitment, don’t think about it - you’ve researched the market, you’ve decided on the boat you want - subject to a survey, and sea trial if needed - buy the boat and be happy!"

That's because of 2 reasons - 1 I didn't want to detail sea trials and surveys, 2) I didn't want anyone to use those as part of the wouldjatake negotiation. I believe most should believe a respectable looking boat that is for sale would pass a sea trial and survey. Only once they are ready to make a real offer and whip out the checkbook should they make the offer pending a sea trial and, if necessary, a survey. Surveys are expensive, and not all boats (such as under $3,000 trailered boats), need one. n But again, I will detail surveys and sea trials in a future post.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
My Sailing Advice, Tips, Tutorials Blog:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 01-13-2009
CaptainFredGreenfield's Avatar
Dodging Coconuts
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 31
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
CaptainFredGreenfield is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by k1vsk View Post
I guess if a seller knew you were bidding on multiple boats simultaneously, he/she might take you less serious than you'd prefer or may rather deal with someone who is more focused. I know that I'd personally rather deal with someone interested in my boat more so than who makes the best deal.
One other thing which strikes me is that buying a boat is very much an emotional decision as compared with being strictly economic and your scenario sounds more like someone in the used car wholesale business than someone looking for a boat.
Also, don't know what you mean by "diffusing the contenders" - is that a euphemism for undermining an otherwise legitimate potential buyer?
Who said to tell the sellers you were looking at more boats?

I didn't write anything about that.

I also did say look at a LOT of boats, and decide on 10 that you might really want to own. I didn't say go to an auction and buy one if the price is right so you can put it on your lot and sell it.

But lets assume someone, who had looked at a hundred boats (maybe a small exaggeration), but finally found a few that clicked with them in what they want, came to you, who is selling a boat and after looking at your boat said,

"Hey I've looked at a lot of boats, and I really like yours. Its got a lot of the things I really want. I've got a few more to look at but I could see myself owning yours. Do you mind if I ask you a few questions?"

you would then say,

"Well if you're looking at other boats then you can't be serious about mine. I won't answer your questions... be gone, ya scurvy dog!"

?

C'mon. I've sold many boats over the years. I have one for sale right now. Everyone who has come to look at it has looked at other boats. I feel happy that they think enough of it to come all the way to my marina (its a PITA to get to if you've never been there) just to look at my boat and potentially buy it. This of course, after I put the pants on them as a seller over the phone to make sure its worth my time AND theirs to come and look at the boat.

"diffusing the close contenders" is what I said, and no, what I meant is, close contenders being the boats a buyer has been looking at very strongly.. the top 5. If you can only buy one and have had contact with the other four, the polite thing to do is call the others, thank them for their time, and wish them good luck.

There's nothing shady going on here matey, I'm just trying to give novices some clues on how to buy right and get a good deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarthaT View Post
Good write up, some good thoughts in there
Thank you, don't know what the deal is with the video you posted but I can't see it, only saw it in your quote.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
My Sailing Advice, Tips, Tutorials Blog:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by CaptainFredGreenfield; 01-13-2009 at 06:42 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 01-13-2009
camaraderie's Avatar
moderate?
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 13,877
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 15
camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
You might try looking at some of the other discussions on actually buying a boat that are here. There is a lot more to it and this is a frequent topic here with lots of good advice including some with significant buying/selling experience of their own as well as brokers.
Personally I am not a proponent of narrowing it down to 5 boats...you should narrow it down to one boat...the one you love that appears to be in the condition you want. You MUST be prepared to let the deal fall through but it is a buyers market and another one will appear shortly as JoeShulz recently found.
__________________
No longer posting. Reach me by PM!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 01-13-2009
CaptainFredGreenfield's Avatar
Dodging Coconuts
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 31
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
CaptainFredGreenfield is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
You might try looking at some of the other discussions on actually buying a boat that are here. There is a lot more to it and this is a frequent topic here with lots of good advice including some with significant buying/selling experience of their own as well as brokers.
Personally I am not a proponent of narrowing it down to 5 boats...you should narrow it down to one boat...the one you love that appears to be in the condition you want. You MUST be prepared to let the deal fall through but it is a buyers market and another one will appear shortly as JoeShulz recently found.
Good advice. Again there are thousands of threads with thousands of opinions on sailnet, I can't possibly cover all the angles.

I think it has a lot to do with geographic location too, because in So Cal for example, If I want a Cal 30 or Catalina 30, I could probably find 20 for sale within 50 miles right now. So, its a lot easier to find 5 boats in similar condition for similar prices in So Cal, but in a smaller demographic, you might only find one or two that meet your criteria. But then if you look at the Owning a Boat is Expensive! thread's responses, you can see several owners of boats in smaller demographics, where they know that their boat is in great shape and "at the top of its class" and they're not going to back off of their price much if at all. Some are proud of their boat, and the price reflects it.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
My Sailing Advice, Tips, Tutorials Blog:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 01-13-2009
camaraderie's Avatar
moderate?
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 13,877
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 15
camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
I was proud of my boat. A year later I realized pride goeth before the fall in prices!
__________________
No longer posting. Reach me by PM!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 01-13-2009
bljones's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: South Coast Ontario
Posts: 8,178
Thanks: 32
Thanked 72 Times in 65 Posts
Rep Power: 8
bljones has a spectacular aura about bljones has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainFredGreenfield View Post
I made the comment at the end of the Step 2 part:

" Once you’ve made the commitment, don’t think about it - you’ve researched the market, you’ve decided on the boat you want - subject to a survey, and sea trial if needed - buy the boat and be happy!"

That's because of 2 reasons - 1 I didn't want to detail sea trials and surveys, 2) I didn't want anyone to use those as part of the wouldjatake negotiation. I believe most should believe a respectable looking boat that is for sale would pass a sea trial and survey. Only once they are ready to make a real offer and whip out the checkbook should they make the offer pending a sea trial and, if necessary, a survey. Surveys are expensive, and not all boats (such as under $3,000 trailered boats), need one. n But again, I will detail surveys and sea trials in a future post.
My point is that to add that phrase to your "wouldjatake" may have an impact on the bottom line figure that comes out of the seller's mouth. Now, I, as a buyer, may believe that the boat will pass survey, but does the seller? If he does, if he is confident in his boat, then fine. It won't change his bottom line. If he doesn't, if there may be some issue(s) that I, the buyer, overlooked, or he may not have fully disclosed, then hearing those magic words may make his bottom line even more bottomer, or may encourage him to add some additional disclosure. This may help the buyer decide whether to take the next step and whip out the chequebook, or move onto the next boat.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Modern Hull forms and Motion Comfort Jeff_H Sailboat Design and Construction 193 10-31-2013 09:29 AM
Naming and Renaming Your Boat Sue & Larry Cruising Articles 0 12-15-2003 07:00 PM
Fine-Tuning the Autopilot, Part Two Dan Neri Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 10-13-2003 08:00 PM
Performing in Light Air Brian Hancock Learning to Sail Articles 0 01-15-2003 07:00 PM
The Balance of Hull and Sails Steve Colgate Learning to Sail Articles 0 05-25-2000 08:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:50 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.