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  #1  
Old 01-27-2009
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Bavaria Yachts and CE ratings

It's boat show time out here in Seattle and I ran across a Bavaria boat for the first time and came away moderately impressed at the price/quality ratio. Particularly impressive to me was the plaque at the stern proclaiming the 38's CE Category A rating, which I had previously only seen affixed to high-quality Northern European boats such as the Malo or Hallberg-Rassy's. But something seemed fishy in that the Bavaria was less than half the price of those, so I came home and started to do some digging.

Sure enough, here and elsewhere I see significant questions over the build quality (I didn't notice anything particularly amiss on the yacht here at the show, with the exception of some noticeably less than top-grade fittings and fixtures) and frequent comparisons to Hunters, Catalinas, and the like... all boats generally thought of as being coastal cruisers rather than off-shore boats, at least without significant modification.

From the pricing, this makes sense. What has me confused is the CE Cat A rating, which is supposed to indicate an Ocean capable production boat, capable of "extended voyages where condition may exceed wind
force 8 (Beaufort scale) and wave height of 4 m (13.0 ft)" from what I have read.

How does this rating jibe with the (apparently) popular conception of the Bavaria yachts? Is it simply a rubber stamp with little or no meaning? Could a Hunter or Catalina similarly qualify under the CE rules? Or in fact are the Bavarias a higher quality yacht with a lower price point rooted in the cost-efficiences of their automated build process? There just aren't enough examples out here on the West Coast for me to draw a well-informed conclusion on my own. I can go aboard any number of Catalinas and understand why they have the reputation they do, but on the other hand they aren't represented as being anything more than they are. The Bavarias are being sold as ocean-going vessels... are they really only comparable to American coastal cruisers?

Anyone have any insights on this? Is this a case of unwarranted "production boat bashing" or are the CE ratings really just sort of a wink-wink standard?
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Old 01-27-2009
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The CE Recreational Vessel ratings were developed as a way of rating production vessels in a number of categories and relative to a spectrum of potential uses. The CE Open Ocean rating derives from a very specific set of predetermined criteria which are by no means intended to suggest that the boat in question is suitable for offshore voyaging. Almost all manufacturers (Hunter, Beneteau, and Catalina included) routinely achieve Open Ocean Ratings on their models over 30 or so feet in length. The rating does not evaluate and therefore should not be construed to suggest that the boats are constructed, laid out or equipped in a manner that one would ideally want for offshore passage making.

Personally, I would consider the Bavarias one step down from Beneteau's first Series and pretty much on a par with Beneteau's number series, Hunters or Catalinas. In otherwords, reasonable coastal cruisers that could make a short ocean passage but which would not be a good choice if you expect to spend a lot of time offshore.

Jeff
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Old 01-27-2009
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Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice
Don't get me started...just try to build a one off boat in Europe..I waited 5 nmontyhs to get all the papaer work for my A cert.

The inspectors were...well..leave it there..but they were more into farming than boats...they requested certificates of EVERY SINGLE fixture, window, toilet etc. that went on the boat..

It must meet ISO compliances..bla bla bla...

IT'S JUST A FREEKING GIMMICK....Looks good on papers, and they FORCE the boat builders to do this certification...A JOKE!!!

I had to ask Lewmar, Sparcraft, Plastimo, etc..for doc on all the stuff that went on my boat..

Then they sent this moron that wanted to nail a plastic hose to my Cherrywood bulkhead, because the form said "positive fixture"...

It was a joke...he had us move weight around the boat and measured freeboard everytime..on a boat with a 10 foot draft!!!! he didn't even knew the boat had a keel with 4000lbs lead on it.!!!! Kid you not...

Wanted to do a stability test, by rolling my boat...I told him to give me a cheque for damages..he refused...I refused...we fought....

being a prototype sucks...but finally I complained and we got it fixed..apparentely some keel boats are not to show stability tests..the architect shows the numbers and its done..

then the "ex[pert", sent the 'expert" checks and tests to Brussels, and I waited 4 nmonths for a paper, so I could register the boat..

Catch this...can't have the boat in the water, because it's not registred, can't register the boat, because they took 5 months tio issue the certificates, can't have the boat outdoors, without proof of ownership...IT WAS A JOKE...

If Bavaria has an A Certificate, it's only to prove the hulls are white and not made of cardboard...everything else can
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Old 01-27-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giulietta View Post
Don't get me started...just try to build a one off boat in Europe..I waited 5 nmontyhs to get all the papaer work for my A cert.

The inspectors were...well..leave it there..but they were more into farming than boats...they requested certificates of EVERY SINGLE fixture, window, toilet etc. that went on the boat..

It must meet ISO compliances..bla bla bla...

IT'S JUST A FREEKING GIMMICK....Looks good on papers, and they FORCE the boat builders to do this certification...A JOKE!!!

I had to ask Lewmar, Sparcraft, Plastimo, etc..for doc on all the stuff that went on my boat..

Then they sent this moron that wanted to nail a plastic hose to my Cherrywood bulkhead, because the form said "positive fixture"...

It was a joke...he had us move weight around the boat and measured freeboard everytime..on a boat with a 10 foot draft!!!! he didn't even knew the boat had a keel with 4000lbs lead on it.!!!! Kid you not...

Wanted to do a stability test, by rolling my boat...I told him to give me a cheque for damages..he refused...I refused...we fought....

being a prototype sucks...but finally I complained and we got it fixed..apparentely some keel boats are not to show stability tests..the architect shows the numbers and its done..

then the "ex[pert", sent the 'expert" checks and tests to Brussels, and I waited 4 nmonths for a paper, so I could register the boat..

Catch this...can't have the boat in the water, because it's not registred, can't register the boat, because they took 5 months tio issue the certificates, can't have the boat outdoors, without proof of ownership...IT WAS A JOKE...

If Bavaria has an A Certificate, it's only to prove the hulls are white and not made of cardboard...everything else can
That is unbelievable. What a load of crock. How much did they charge you for this "privilege"?
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  #5  
Old 01-27-2009
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Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice
6000 Euros plus fees....

True...
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Old 01-27-2009
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6000 Euros plus fees....

True...
Ouch. Well, I guess that explains the true purpose of the "certifications."

In my county, if we want to dig a hole on our property (for instance, for installing a fence post), we are supposed to get (buy) a "soil disturbance permit".
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Old 01-27-2009
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Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice
plus...after the certification, the builder can keep the ccertificate, BUT..if you change as much as 1 millimiter the cabin..need new papers again!!!

Meaning, the cartificate is good for a series of boats that are all the same!!!

which means that everytime I do optimisations to my keel I would need to re do everything...yeah right...

sit down and wait,..let me call Larry The cable guy again to do the cert tests again...I'll nail the plastic hose to his forhead....(because he does not have a foreskin for sure)....worn out by excess liking...(like a dog)...

IT'S A JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!

a bunch of rules, written by farmers, pastry makers and (I'm almost sure), a former character of Disney Paris....whose notion of a boat, is it goes opn water and it's white...

They don't differentiate between a super tanker ans SD's boat!!!!
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Old 01-27-2009
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So it seems our European friends are not much behind us North Americans in the realm of revenue-generating regulatory spaghetti. Guess that answers my question!

Thanks!
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Great..now I am all upset, irritated, and aggravated..

see what you did???

Ruined my day...I bet I will piss someone off here today
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Old 01-27-2009
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